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AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#133477: Jul 29th 2016 at 5:45:34 PM

I think that guy I'd mentioned who posts a lot of anti-Hillary memes on my Facebook is voting for Stein.

I should probably clarify that the guy is only my friend because he's dating this girl I've been friends with for years who is nowhere near this over the top about politics.

Fucking hell though, Stein pisses me off. I don't even know anything about her policies, but anyone who is anti-vaxx is already on my bad side.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
smokeycut Since: Mar, 2013
#133478: Jul 29th 2016 at 5:50:03 PM

My cousin is voting for her, but her dads are both trying to get her to vote for Hillary.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#133479: Jul 29th 2016 at 5:51:47 PM

I actually had a fair amount of respect for Stein in 2012. Unfortunately it looks like she's gone off the deep end. I have a feeling she doesn't actually believe this stuff but she's just doing it to pander to potential supporters. She's no different from many other politicians in that sense no matter what anyone says.

wehrmacht belongs to the hurricane from the garden of everything Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
belongs to the hurricane
#133480: Jul 29th 2016 at 5:54:14 PM

Besides general quackery and the real and tangible harm it brings to powerless children, the whole anti-vaxx thing pisses me off because of its accusation that vaccines are a cause of autism, which is both complete rubbish and rooted in autism-phobia.

To see a politician trying to court those types of people reflects very poorly on them.

edited 29th Jul '16 5:55:07 PM by wehrmacht

chartoc Since: Apr, 2010
#133481: Jul 29th 2016 at 5:55:45 PM

Well here is the Green Party Platform https://www.greenparty.org/Platform.php Some of the ideas here was just crazy.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#133482: Jul 29th 2016 at 5:56:12 PM

Me and my brother both are on the autism spectrum, and accusations that vaccines cause autism do nothing but piss me off.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#133483: Jul 29th 2016 at 6:02:05 PM

Yeah, I'm on the spectrum as well and the implications (that dead or sickened children>autistic ones) do piss me off. But my real issue is that the anti-vaxx movement (unlike a lot of other anti-science quacks) is truly dangerous. Infants, the elderly, anyone with a weakened immune system, those are are genuinely allergic to vaccines...they are all at risk. And people like Stein further legitimize the belief that your feelings are someone more important than the public's health.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#133484: Jul 29th 2016 at 6:02:29 PM

@Green Party Platform: I like about 70% of that platform but a lot of the other stuff is absurd. A thirty hour work week? Guaranteed jobs? Workplace democracy? Those sound like terrible ideas.

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#133485: Jul 29th 2016 at 6:04:22 PM

I don't think Stein is truly opposed to vaccines, she's just pandering to that issue cause it has a big following among the far-left.

[up]Don't forget the defense cuts that would probably trigger a recession and mass unemployment (and kill what's left of the manufacturing sector).

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#133486: Jul 29th 2016 at 6:04:30 PM

Bill Maher is an anti-vaxxer too. Yet another reason why I question why my family likes him.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#133487: Jul 29th 2016 at 6:17:52 PM

Yes, that in my mind is a huge issue: Stein is an educated physician. She is well aware of the truth of this, and she indicates they're 'good' but talks out of both sides of her mouth with a "well...the industry and corporations are out there and they can't be trusted with this stuff!"

It's throwing a bone to the most ridiculous anti-vax crowd who religiously follow what Jenny McCarthy says about 'mommy instincts' as opposed to science. And Stein is very, very content to let that happen as long as she benefits.

wehrmacht belongs to the hurricane from the garden of everything Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
belongs to the hurricane
#133488: Jul 29th 2016 at 6:18:31 PM

Yeah, I'm on the spectrum as well and the implications (that dead or sickened children>autistic ones) do piss me off.

Same here, I actually forgot to mention that in my initial post.

It's one thing to harm yourself thanks to your foolish beliefs, but harming your children because of them is pretty contemptible.

I don't think Stein is truly opposed to vaccines, she's just pandering to that issue cause it has a big following among the far-left.

That's actually something I was wondering: why is it (seemingly) primarily a far left thing?

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#133489: Jul 29th 2016 at 6:23:14 PM

[up] It's not if Trump and Carson's anti-vaxxer pandering is anything to go by.

nightwyrm_zero Since: Apr, 2010
#133490: Jul 29th 2016 at 6:28:51 PM

Anyone who's promoting anti-vaxxing is automatically on my shit-list.

Eschaton Since: Jul, 2010
#133491: Jul 29th 2016 at 6:34:30 PM

Anti-vaccination is an... interesting bipartisan issue, since it combines anti-science, anti-government, and anti-corporation sentiment, in varying ratios depending on the individual's leanings.

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#133492: Jul 29th 2016 at 6:36:36 PM

It's one of these things that's a good illustration of the horseshoe effect.

Far left people are anti-vaxxers because they distrust/hate corporations.

Far right people are anti-vaxxers because they distrust/hate scientists.

[nja]

And it also connects with this idea I've read about that people who believe in one conspiracy theory are likely to believe in others (so like people who are September 11 Truthers also tend to be Birthers, Holocaust Deniers, etc.).

edited 29th Jul '16 6:36:50 PM by Hodor2

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#133493: Jul 29th 2016 at 6:37:49 PM

A thirty hour work week doesn't sound particularly bad to me; certainly that alone with raising wages is a conversation that needs to be had. I don't think it's likely to happen any time soon, but it's a conversation to have. But I have no idea how the fuck you can guarantee jobs for everybody. That's not even possible, for a variety of reasons. And the "Second Paycheck" bullet point makes no sense at all. Like, you're taxing people for their thirty hours of work so they can get a government paycheck? Although in light of their hundred percent tax on people making ten times as much as minimum wage further down, I guess they expect money to grow on trees. (And if you're paying all your money into taxes, you're basically not earning any money at all, so I'm even more unsure how they expect enough people to go for that.)

The environmental home rule thing just looks like State's Rights with left wing buzzwords. And also appears to solely be about drugs, in context. I'm pretty sure I've voiced my skepticism about the use and worth of State's Rights.

And they seem to think the UN is a US puppet.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#133494: Jul 29th 2016 at 6:37:57 PM

[up][up]Far-left people also hate it because science (something for dead white men yada yada, something something post-modernism, something something Measuring the Marigolds).

I think it's symptomatic of general anarchism, if we're to look at it from a biaxial perspective. The hard green left and antivaxx right are both distrustful of the gubment.

edited 29th Jul '16 6:39:16 PM by AlleyOop

Pseudopartition Screaming Into The Void from The Cretaeceous Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
Screaming Into The Void
#133495: Jul 29th 2016 at 6:42:25 PM

Because a significant number of left wing voters are college educated (I assume not with science degrees, because then we would not be having this conversation at all) wealthy white people. These people are also more likely to support the anti-vaccination movement. It's theorized that this is because they're more likely to think they know better than experts due to their educations; and generally feel that anything not 'natural' is toxic and trying to kill you (because obviously nature never does this, hurricanes, what hurricanes?). Essentially, privileged people who live in echo chambers and are used to being in charge.

Edit: This paragraph has been removed now that I've had the time to calm down a bit.

Interestingly while doing some research into Maher when I was trying to write something for this thread I found this article, which sums it up neatly as:

Basically, Conservatives tend to deny science that in any way threatens their religious beliefs, or their corporate connections. Liberals tend to deny science that in any way threatens their belief that they're the smartest in the room and know best how to solve other people's problems. Hence Conservatives denying things like evolution (but God!) and climate change (but Big Oil!) and Liberals denying lots of medicine and health-related stuff (but no one knows more about things than me! Not even doctors! Because the Internet!).
Anyway, I dislike Maher for a number of other reasons not already discussed, but this post is long enough as is.

Environmental issues are hugely important to me as well, but it's important to not be conned by policies that sound green, but in reality often cause damage to the environment. The American Green Party's platform tries to legitimize anti-GMO, pro-homeopathy types, which is a great example of this.

Edit: I've already been [nja]'d the hell out of, but this took me so goddamn long to type so it is staying.

edited 1st Aug '16 3:40:51 PM by Pseudopartition

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#133496: Jul 29th 2016 at 6:42:42 PM

Anti-vaxx is neither a left nor right position. It is a white privilege position. People who refuse to vaccinate are generally speaking, well-off, middle to upper class white people. They're people who can afford high quality health care, and accordingly are more likely to recover if ill. And because of that they feel they are entitled to expose everyone else to illnesses.

edited 29th Jul '16 6:44:02 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#133497: Jul 29th 2016 at 6:45:13 PM

Actually I've seen a fair number of black anti-vaxxers, claiming it's a government conspiracy to poison, sterilize, or control African Americans. Often drawing off of the Tuskegee Syphilis Incident and older AIDS government conspiracy theories.

edited 29th Jul '16 6:46:16 PM by AlleyOop

nightwyrm_zero Since: Apr, 2010
#133498: Jul 29th 2016 at 6:45:29 PM

So Trump is starting to get secret intelligence briefings today. At a rally in Colorado, he started ranting about paying rent for US base in Saudi Arabia. Catch is, the US isn't suppose to have a base in SA. So he's either just a fucking ignorant idiot, or he's leaking secret intel on his FIRST FUCKING DAY.

http://www.ifyouonlynews.com/politics/trump-may-have-just-leaked-classified-info-on-his-first-day-getting-intelligence-briefings/

kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#133499: Jul 29th 2016 at 6:55:41 PM

[up]TRUMP: Hey, everybody, just so you know, America's had a base in Saudi Arabia — yes, they've had a base in Saudi Arabia all this time, and you know what? You know what, they didn't think that you, that the American people, that all of you people who live in this country deserved to know. Well, you know what? I think you deserve to know, so guess what, I'm letting you know. No secrets from me, no sir! Now, let me tell you a bit more about me and Putin...

Or, you know, he could just be a total moron. Either option's totally possible at this point.tongue

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#133500: Jul 29th 2016 at 6:59:52 PM

Internet fans dub Trump "the God Emperor".

As a Warhammer 40K fan, I am offended on behalf of the Imperium of Man.


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