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PhiSat Planeswalker from Everywhere and Nowhere Since: Jan, 2011
Planeswalker
#133426: Jul 29th 2016 at 2:12:12 PM

Both the Bible and the Quran are heavily contextualized books written millennia ago. It would be best if neither were taken at face value and every single extremist on both Christian and Muslim side were required to take in-depth analysis into their holy texts before deciding to use certain passages out of context to dictate how to hate people.

Maher is being an idiot, but that's nothing new I suppose.

Oissu!
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#133427: Jul 29th 2016 at 2:16:37 PM

What depresses me are those on the left who follow his example. Like the idiots on social media saying that Mrs. Khan shouldn't have been allowed on stage because she was wearing a headscarf and "that's a sign of female oppression". So are high heels? Should we have kicked every woman wearing those off the stage? Even worse are the ones making assumptions about her husband. "He must beat her" because she wears a headscarf. Gag.

Seriously, some of the comments on this article, many of them from lefties.

edited 29th Jul '16 2:18:41 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar

majoraoftime (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#133428: Jul 29th 2016 at 2:20:12 PM

I've literally seen people on Facebook saying "We don't need freedom of religion, we need freedom from religion!"

I think this kind of stuff often comes from well-meaning people who hear about gay kids being kicked out of their homes or [insert Islamic extremist event here] and think, "damn, if we got rid of religion (or at least were able to protect people from it) that shit wouldn't happen." The reality is much more complicated than this – homophobia can easily exist without religion and the attraction of violent religious extremism often has political root cases, etc., but it's pretty easy to think this way.

The nastier flipside of this is that humans have pretty tribal sensibilities and this kind of dick-waving happens no matter which cause you take up.

edited 29th Jul '16 2:22:18 PM by majoraoftime

smokeycut Since: Mar, 2013
#133429: Jul 29th 2016 at 2:20:29 PM

Ugh, I'll never understand why people get so uptight about hijabs. If she wants to cover herself for personal reasons (be they religious, or even just because she wants to dress modestly), fucking let her. It's not hurting anyone.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#133430: Jul 29th 2016 at 2:23:25 PM

Bill Maher has actually answered how he can be friends with Ann Coulter: because he hardly ever sees her.

Not that their similarly terrible views of Islam probably don't help maintain the friendship probably, but they don't really seem to talk a lot about things they don't agree on.

edited 29th Jul '16 2:23:55 PM by LSBK

randomdude4 Since: May, 2011
#133431: Jul 29th 2016 at 2:23:59 PM

[up][up][up]Well meaning or not, it's still fucking bigoted. If you flipped the circumstances and had a well-meaning preacher advocating for kicking out that aforementioned kid for being gay, saying that it was to protect kids or some shit, it doesn't change the fact that he's a homophobe, no matter how much he thought he had those other kids' best interests at heart. Intentions don't mean shit when it comes to their consequences.

edited 29th Jul '16 2:24:08 PM by randomdude4

"Can't make an omelette without breaking some children." -Bur
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#133432: Jul 29th 2016 at 2:24:25 PM

On this forum I used to frequent, there was this one idiot who kept posting about how homosexuality is a mental disorder. He had no religious reason for it, just bullshit science, and he was eventually banned for attacking everyone.

Without religion, there'd still be homophobia, just in the form of bullshit science.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
PhiSat Planeswalker from Everywhere and Nowhere Since: Jan, 2011
Planeswalker
#133433: Jul 29th 2016 at 2:25:22 PM

[up][up][up]Because there are times where it's not a choice, and that is oppressive. But saying it's oppressive when it's a choice is patronizing and unfortunate.

edited 29th Jul '16 2:25:30 PM by PhiSat

Oissu!
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#133434: Jul 29th 2016 at 2:25:58 PM

The assumption that "she must be abused" because she a) wore a hijab and b) let her husband do the talking is pretty vile. It's not like she could be torn up to speak about the death of her son in public, right? Or not be an experienced public speaker? Or not speak much English? No, the only possible explanation, to the right and hard left alike is that she's a victim of her husband.

EDIT: As my fiancee just pointed out, we don't even know if she wears the damn headscarf all the time. It was a convention. She was dressed up in her best clothes.

edited 29th Jul '16 2:31:05 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar

NesClassic Meh-meh!? from Flyover Country Since: Dec, 2012 Relationship Status: In another castle
Meh-meh!?
#133435: Jul 29th 2016 at 2:28:30 PM

Pardon me for asking, but I figured y'all would have a better idea of where to go for something like this than me.

For the upcoming elections, would any of you be able to direct me somewhere showing both all current presidential candidates and the policies they'd bring along? I'd look for it myself but for all I know I'd land something with that oh-so-subtle bias, and sometimes that's a little hard to discern even if it's an extreme slant after all.

Thanks in advance and apologies if this is a little off-subject for whatever y'all are currently talking about.

[down]Bless you, good fellow! I'm not sure if I'll stick around here much, but so far this seems like the sort of thing I was looking for. Thank you~

edited 29th Jul '16 2:33:13 PM by NesClassic

🏳️‍⚧️she/her | Vio Rhyse Alberia
randomdude4 Since: May, 2011
#133436: Jul 29th 2016 at 2:29:50 PM

Try this.

"Can't make an omelette without breaking some children." -Bur
majoraoftime (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#133437: Jul 29th 2016 at 2:30:57 PM

Well meaning or not, it's still fucking bigoted. If you flipped the circumstances and had a well-meaning preacher advocating for kicking out that aforementioned kid for being gay, saying that it was to protect kids or some shit, it doesn't change the fact that he's a homophobe, no matter how much he thought he had those other kids' best interests at heart. Intentions don't mean shit when it comes to their consequences.

I think it is important to empathize with people you disagree with. The urge to smugly lash out at people when they say things you dislike is what partially led to the rise of Trump – is some 50 year old trucker from Kentucky with a bad back and an addiction to Fentanyl going to watch John Oliver and go "ah, shit, I guess Trump can't build that wall. time to become a HillaryMan"?

Also, the implication that throwing children onto the streets for a biological quirk and sharing "lol religion sux lol" quotes online are somehow comparable in "consequences" is incomprehensible to me.

edited 29th Jul '16 2:36:13 PM by majoraoftime

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#133438: Jul 29th 2016 at 2:35:17 PM

I happened to catch Mahr's show from I think last week and while he reluctantly acknowledged that American Muslims are assimilated/non-terrorist supporting, he was going on about how the only reason why America/Europe are still liberal and free countries and Muslims are peaceful is because they are less than half of the population. I might be misunderstanding his point, but I think he was also arguing that the majority of Muslims aren't moderates- he said something like "Moderate Muslims never win". And of course referring to the actions of ISIL and extremist Muslims as acting like they were in the 6th century.

I know this isn't the Islamophobia thread, but I really hate these two claims, especially the invocation of the time period in which Muhammad lived. There's been a lot of Muslim majority/Muslim-ruled areas throughout history, ranging from pretty good places to live (as a non-Muslim or otherwise) to not so good but I'd wager that all of them were probably better than living under ISIL or the Taliban. Because while there are plenty of examples of "bad behavior" coming from traditional practices, what makes ISIL and its acolytes particularly bad is that they are modern people attempting to act like people in the 6th century- but actually acting much, much worse.

edited 29th Jul '16 2:40:13 PM by Hodor2

randomdude4 Since: May, 2011
#133439: Jul 29th 2016 at 2:35:41 PM

[up][up]Fair point. I didn't mean don't empathize - we definitely need more empathy in the world. At the end of the day though it's the consequences that people take notice of most of the time.

edited 29th Jul '16 2:35:51 PM by randomdude4

"Can't make an omelette without breaking some children." -Bur
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#133440: Jul 29th 2016 at 2:38:36 PM

[up][up]Maher has accepted the Sam Harris and Christopher Hitchens talking point that Islam is a uniquely dangerous threat to "Western civilization", a phrase he uses with a total lack of irony. Some of the edgier leftists out there mirror him in this, in a fairly desperate attempt to appear "not PC".

Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#133441: Jul 29th 2016 at 2:48:47 PM

I've literally seen people on Facebook saying "We don't need freedom of religion, we need freedom from religion!"

Hey, I'd rather like freedom from religion myself, thank you very much.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#133442: Jul 29th 2016 at 2:49:22 PM

Yeah, I'm all for freedom from religion. It's just not generally worth being a total dick about.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
randomdude4 Since: May, 2011
#133443: Jul 29th 2016 at 2:50:20 PM

That's rather intolerant

edited 29th Jul '16 2:51:39 PM by randomdude4

"Can't make an omelette without breaking some children." -Bur
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#133444: Jul 29th 2016 at 2:52:40 PM

I don't object to religion existing. I just don't like when people try to use it to justify political actions or social policies. Keep that stuff in its own corner please.

Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#133445: Jul 29th 2016 at 2:52:44 PM

[up][up]Yes, it is. I have no intention of tolerating anyone who attempts to restrict my personal liberties based on values taught in their holy texts, and I also have no intention of tolerating someone who harasses me with their beliefs, or harasses me based on mine, or posts religious graffiti on public property (that's a major problem in Anchorage).

I don't care if you practice your religion, but I will be absolutely intolerant if you spill it over on to me. That's what freedom from religion means.

edited 29th Jul '16 2:53:18 PM by Ramidel

randomdude4 Since: May, 2011
#133446: Jul 29th 2016 at 2:56:29 PM

Not asking to be an ass or anything, but what personal liberties are you restricted from that somehow is caused by religion? We have freedom of religion for a reason, and that includes not believing in anything too.

Clearly you do have a problem with people practicing their religion, else you wouldn't want "freedom" just because you hear people talking about it.

[down][down] Yes, people have agendas in politics, but I'm asking what freedoms are barred today because of religion. We have marriage equality, atheists aren't formally barred from partaking in things, etc.

edited 29th Jul '16 3:00:22 PM by randomdude4

"Can't make an omelette without breaking some children." -Bur
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#133447: Jul 29th 2016 at 2:57:58 PM

The Justice Department is investigating another hack, this time of the Clinton campaign itself.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/29/politics/democratic-congressional-campaign-committee-hacked/index.html?adkey=bn

Someone had better go down for this.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#133448: Jul 29th 2016 at 2:58:03 PM

[up][up]People use religion to justify opposing civil rights all the damn time.

edited 29th Jul '16 2:58:12 PM by Kostya

Deadbeatloser22 from Disappeared by Space Magic (Great Old One) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
#133449: Jul 29th 2016 at 2:59:38 PM

See also all the "we need the right to discriminate against Homosexuals because not allowing us to infringes on our religious freedoms" bullshit.

"Yup. That tasted purple."
smokeycut Since: Mar, 2013
#133450: Jul 29th 2016 at 3:01:10 PM

If people actually listened to the "religion and politics shouldn't mix" thing we'd be fine. That, and making sure that abusive parents who use religion as justification are tried and prosecuted. Otherwise, there's no harm in someone just going to church and praying.


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