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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

megarockman from The Sixth Borough (Experienced Trainee)
#132276: Jul 25th 2016 at 11:11:41 AM

[up]x5 Programming already began at 10 AM with open-to-the-public caucuses and meetings for various groups. The actual gavel-in starts at 4 PM.

The damned queen and the relentless knight.
FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#132277: Jul 25th 2016 at 11:13:02 AM

Well Bernie tried. His supporters don't seem to want to listen to him on the pragmatic stuff though.

nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#132278: Jul 25th 2016 at 11:18:11 AM

[up][up][up]Well, I guess we have different priorities.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#132280: Jul 25th 2016 at 11:31:53 AM

[up] Do we though? Clinton has to realize the popular perception of trade deals is extremely negative for better or worse. If he GOP retains its anti-trade deal position, they'll crush the democrats in 2020 if the TPP gets passed in spite of all the opposition.

edited 25th Jul '16 11:36:34 AM by CaptainCapsase

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#132281: Jul 25th 2016 at 11:33:51 AM

Opposition to trade deals is just a part of the anti-globalism sentiment that's sweeping the world because of the abject failure of governments to properly handle wealth inequalty. They've become the default scapegoat.

edited 25th Jul '16 11:34:08 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#132282: Jul 25th 2016 at 11:34:48 AM

[up][up][up]If you say so.

edited 25th Jul '16 11:35:55 AM by nervmeister

NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#132283: Jul 25th 2016 at 11:35:21 AM

If he GOP retains its anti-trade deal position, they'll crush the democrats in 2020 if the TPP gets passed in spite of all the opposition.
Hardly. If Clinton wins and pushes the TTP through early in her presidency, then no one's going to remember or care by 2020. The biggest single thing that gets people to vote for or against an incumbent is how well the economy has done during their time in office — which is an issue much larger than just the TTP.

Besides, hasn't both Hillary and Kaine come out against the TTP at this point anyway? Or are people still assuming that she's going to bait and switch everyone and enact it as soon as she's in office despite saying otherwise on the campaign trail?

edited 25th Jul '16 11:36:01 AM by NativeJovian

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#132284: Jul 25th 2016 at 11:37:01 AM

TPP is a bad deal, but not because of its effects on trade, which would be minimal. It's badly mislabeled in that regard. Its main effects will be on wealth mobility (the ability for individuals and businesses to shift their money around to dodge taxes) and intellectual property law. Now, the Internet is up in arms about the latter, and for good reason, but in terms of direct economic effects, it's basically nil.

[up] "Hillary is a dirty liar" and all that.

edited 25th Jul '16 11:37:32 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas Since: Apr, 2010
Professional Forum Ninja
#132285: Jul 25th 2016 at 11:37:29 AM

The obituary for a Houston area woman has listed the current presidential election as one of her causes of death.

"We're all paper, we're all scissors, we're all fightin' with our mirrors, scared we'll never find somebody to love."
smokeycut Since: Mar, 2013
#132286: Jul 25th 2016 at 11:38:57 AM

I'd gladly take the TPP over the effects of a Trump presidency.

Which is more important? A trade deal not going through? Or the safety of Mexicans, Muslims, black people, gay people, trans people, and women?

nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#132287: Jul 25th 2016 at 11:39:18 AM

Or are people still assuming that she's going to bait and switch everyone and enact it as soon as she's in office despite saying otherwise on the campaign trail?
Given the generous amount of "contributions" she's been getting, she may be pressured into returning the favor if she gets into the oval office.

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#132288: Jul 25th 2016 at 11:39:50 AM

@Fighteer: And it's not going away until that gets addressed. Then there's the IP provisions. After failing to pass PIPA for the fifth(?) time it gets hidden in a trade deal. Real smooth.

@smokey: The odds of an economic breakdown in the next president's terms are fairly high; as long as the GOP retains the house congress is going to get next to nothing done, and that means it's only a matter of time before the next meltdown. What the GOP puts forward then might very well be worse than Trump: someone every bit as vile with the competency to actually put their hateful words into action. All I'm saying is if Clinton goes back on her word here, the democrats will have serious problems in 2020.

edited 25th Jul '16 11:43:49 AM by CaptainCapsase

ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#132289: Jul 25th 2016 at 11:42:14 AM

On the note of Trump as President, Trump's camp apparently approached John Kasich with the VP offer, allegedly saying that Kasich could be "in charge of all domestic and foreign policy in a Trump White House", while Trump would focus on making American Great Again.

Trump's denied it, naturally, but I can't help but think that he could easily do that sort of stunt.

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#132290: Jul 25th 2016 at 11:43:39 AM

[up][up][up][up]If Trump's willing to risk losing a sizable portion of potential voters for the election after this one, then he'll try putting his more paranoid policies in motion. That being said, I dont think he wants that.

edited 25th Jul '16 11:45:44 AM by nervmeister

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#132291: Jul 25th 2016 at 11:43:42 AM

[up][up] We discussed this previously. Trump has, on several occasions, expressed his disdain for the "details" of running the nation, preferring instead to sit atop it all and issue vague instructions like an orchestra conductor.

edited 25th Jul '16 11:43:50 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
smokeycut Since: Mar, 2013
#132292: Jul 25th 2016 at 11:49:39 AM

You're arguing that Hillary will go back on her word and pass TPP, but Trump won't follow up on his campaign promises to damage the lives of thousands of Americans. Since when was Trump a better person that Hillary?

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#132294: Jul 25th 2016 at 11:52:47 AM

Right. The hypothetical disruption of the DNC is being orchestrated by the most extreme of the sore losers.

edited 25th Jul '16 11:52:59 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#132295: Jul 25th 2016 at 11:55:22 AM

You're arguing that Hillary will go back on her word and pass TPP,
Like I said, UNLESS maybe the public backlash against the TPP becomes so great that she considers pissing off the American people to be more risky than pissing off her corporate backers.

edited 25th Jul '16 11:57:17 AM by nervmeister

Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#132296: Jul 25th 2016 at 11:55:40 AM

@Fighter: Anti-globalisim (plus anti-corporateism) has been part of the fringe left for a long time and some of it shows up in Bernie's rhetoric. Their protesters are a regular feature outside WTO summits. Having it spring up on the right is a fairly recent development though...I think.

edited 25th Jul '16 11:56:39 AM by Elle

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#132297: Jul 25th 2016 at 11:58:13 AM

Nah, the far right's all about nationality politics, so of course they also despise globalism. It's the horseshoe effect.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
majoraoftime (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#132298: Jul 25th 2016 at 12:00:46 PM

On the far-right, "globalism" is associated with a (Jewish) elite, letting immigrants pour in and sitting in their ivory towers while the flowers of the white race are killed and raped by the foreign hordes, etc.

edited 25th Jul '16 12:01:56 PM by majoraoftime

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#132299: Jul 25th 2016 at 12:00:49 PM

[up][up][up][up]At the risk of sounding rude, but do you think you're saying something new? Your point has been made (and keeps being made) over and over again, and it never really has much substance behind it.

There's never any proof that she's been especially influenced by her "corporate backers" it's just an assumption that gets parroted over and over again.

[down]So it was.

edited 25th Jul '16 12:14:42 PM by LSBK

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#132300: Jul 25th 2016 at 12:06:11 PM

Heh, "corporate bakers". I'm assuming that's a typo but I find it way too amusing a thought to pass unremarked.


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