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Pseudopartition Screaming Into The Void from The Cretaeceous Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
Screaming Into The Void
#132126: Jul 24th 2016 at 7:53:53 PM

Okay, thanks folks. Yeah, I guess intellectually I understand how Trump has such a huge fanbase; but everything they stand for is just so antithetical to my beliefs and opinions as a person that I don't understand it on an emotional level. That's part of the problem though. Even if Trump loses, his supporters aren't just going to go away.

[up][up]If you need to stay away from this thread for your health, absolutely do so because it's not gonna help. Take care of yourself, first. smile

I probably shouldn't even be here... ah well.

edited 24th Jul '16 7:54:37 PM by Pseudopartition

ILoveDogs Since: May, 2010
#132127: Jul 24th 2016 at 7:55:07 PM

[up][up] This isn't a major scandal? And this won't cause a fuckup at the convention?

Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#132128: Jul 24th 2016 at 7:57:00 PM

@Pseudopartition: I do not support Trump, but I don't think it was the rich who've been screwing America over. In fact, I don't think there's one group in particular who's been screwing America over recently. This is a major factor in my dislike of Trump as well, since his entire MO has been finding individuals to blame for screwing America, and demanding revenge.

edited 24th Jul '16 7:57:29 PM by Protagonist506

Leviticus 19:34
Berrenta MOD Bejeweled (she/her) (Ten years in the joint) Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
Bejeweled (she/her)
#132129: Jul 24th 2016 at 8:20:18 PM

Not supporting someone is fine, but please refrain from wishing harm on someone that you don't like. We want none of that.

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#132130: Jul 24th 2016 at 8:22:21 PM

[up][up][up]Not really, she hasn't been directly implicated, its only really pissed off the die hard Bernie hold outs, and there's been good damage control with the Chairwoman resigning.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Lennik (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#132131: Jul 24th 2016 at 8:41:03 PM

Except Hillary just hired her for her campaign, which I'd say still reflects poorly on her. We can argue all day about whether these leaks are important, but when a chairperson resigns over what looks at least cosmetically to a ton of voters like textbook corruption, you don't immediately hire that person into another area of political influence. It looks like she's being kicked upstairs, and given how unpopular she is right now, that's not a good look.

That's right, boys. Mondo cool.
RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#132132: Jul 24th 2016 at 8:41:15 PM

I'm still not sure what the actually scandalous part is supposed to be. There was no insinuation that the DNC tried rigging primary votes or doing anything untoward, just that they tried (or maybe just considered) making Bernie look bad in the media so that Clinton would win the nomination, which . . . I mean, isn't that a pretty standard campaign tactic?

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#132133: Jul 24th 2016 at 8:44:11 PM

[up]It's not something the party leadership should be doing. they're supposed to be impartial.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#132134: Jul 24th 2016 at 8:46:50 PM

If they had actually done it that would be one thing, but since they apparently didn't and Debbie whatever is stepping down, it really does seem like making a mountain out of a molehill.

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#132135: Jul 24th 2016 at 8:47:37 PM

They didn't do it and Clinton pushed DWC into stepping down for suggesting it.

Even if they did it's a bit of a moot point, Sanders isn't a Democrat. He was just running on their ticket.

Oh really when?
Lennik (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#132136: Jul 24th 2016 at 8:49:27 PM

Even if the tactics revealed in the leaks were innocent, it doesn't really matter. A lot of people are going to perceive it as corruption, which is why if you want to win those peoples' votes, you don't immediately hire one of the people at the center of it all as soon as she resigns.

Re: Sanders not being a Democrat:

It doesn't matter. He ran as a Democrat. Hence the DNC should avoid having the appearance of plotting against him.

Even if they didn't end up doing it, even entertaining the tactic of using atheism to discredit a political opponent as an acceptable thing to do reeks of dishonesty. At the very least, I really don't see how we can fault somebody for thinking it looks really fucking shady.

edited 24th Jul '16 8:55:41 PM by Lennik

That's right, boys. Mondo cool.
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#132137: Jul 24th 2016 at 8:53:00 PM

Most of Sanders voters are young people which means they're the future of the Democratic party. I shouldn't have to explain why pissing them off is a bad idea. If Millennials don't trust the Democrats then they're going to start losing a lot more often over the next ten years.

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#132138: Jul 24th 2016 at 8:54:40 PM

Why is the party leadership supposed to be impartial? Isn't influencing the outcome of elections what they're for?

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#132139: Jul 24th 2016 at 8:55:13 PM

[up][up]Honestly it just seems like some people getting pissed off because they can't be bothered to find out what's actually going on.

edited 24th Jul '16 8:56:17 PM by LSBK

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#132140: Jul 24th 2016 at 8:56:02 PM

Look at what the RNC being impartial got them.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#132141: Jul 24th 2016 at 8:56:07 PM

[up][up][up]No? Why have the primaries if the leadership is going to just pick a candidate. I'm pretty sure it's also against the rules to favor one candidate over another.

[up][up]How so? It seems pretty clear what's going on.

[up]So the existence of Trump means we should just let the party leadership do whatever they want?

edited 24th Jul '16 8:57:05 PM by Kostya

Lennik (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#132142: Jul 24th 2016 at 9:00:06 PM

Even if it's not against the rules, it's blatantly dishonest, especially considering DWS went on The Daily Show and outright denied that the DNC was working against Sanders. If it's not against the rules, and you're doing it, don't say you're not goddamn doing it.

That's right, boys. Mondo cool.
Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#132143: Jul 24th 2016 at 9:02:55 PM

It is what they are for in the general election. They're meant to be the organizational base of the whole party. The supposed purpose of primaries is to give people a voice in choosing a candidate rather than just have them put forward a nomination by fiat (which IIRC is what used to happen). Putting fingers on the scale for a favored primary candidate goes against that.

Also, I suspect the RNC got what they got in spite of their system. If they had fingers on the scale (and I wouldn't be surprised if they did) it failed them utterly this time.

edited 24th Jul '16 9:05:09 PM by Elle

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#132144: Jul 24th 2016 at 9:03:46 PM

We're not talking about the leadership just picking the candidate. We're talking about the leadership doing campaign work for one of the candidates.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#132145: Jul 24th 2016 at 9:05:40 PM

[up][up][up][up]If they're just using it as an excuse to not vote for Hilary or legitimately don't understand that she (most likely) wasn't involved, then that's on them.

And, frankly, I don't think something like this should be a big deal even if they did end up going through with it.

edited 24th Jul '16 9:06:45 PM by LSBK

Lennik (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#132146: Jul 24th 2016 at 9:07:58 PM

Can we not be condescending? I plan to vote for Hillary, but I think most of us can agree that Trump supporters can sour us on Trump, so it should be no stretch that Clinton's supporters in the DNC might sour someone on Clinton. If one is reasonable, so is the other.

I do think this is a big deal. Not that they went through with anything, because it's not clear they did, but because DWS lied about the DNC's intentions over and over again.

edited 24th Jul '16 9:10:32 PM by Lennik

That's right, boys. Mondo cool.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#132147: Jul 24th 2016 at 9:10:08 PM

Condescending about what? If I think something that should be nothing is being turned into something I'm not just going to nod along. I just disagree about how a big a deal should constitute. Well, I also disagree with some other things some people who think this should be a big deal say, but I probably won't address that now.

edited 24th Jul '16 9:12:01 PM by LSBK

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#132148: Jul 24th 2016 at 9:10:15 PM

Not really, no. As far as I'm and anyone else should be concerned if you don't vote for Clinton that's saying that on some level you're fine with Trump winning.

And that's just unacceptable.

Oh really when?
Krieger22 Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018 from Malaysia Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
#132149: Jul 24th 2016 at 9:10:47 PM

I swear there was a consensus on this thread prior to this that DWS was cheating on behalf of Hillary despite the issue that Hillary didn't want, need or welcome such help. So what? We knew this already. If the people supporting Sanders expressing this sort of sentiment are the actual future of the Democrats, then they have to grow up. Since from the looks of things, these are the same brand of morons who don't join a party, sit out every election or write in some no-hoper because "hurr durr both sides are bad horseshoe theory", just younger. The Democrats will be made up of... everyone they're made up of now.

Also, surprise, surprise, Wikileaks is being disingenuous with how they're presenting the leaks.

edited 24th Jul '16 9:11:48 PM by Krieger22

I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot
majoraoftime (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#132150: Jul 24th 2016 at 9:11:20 PM

Not surprising the DNC went to bat for the candidate with by far the best chance of winning and with way deeper connections to the Dems. Still, the religion thing is unconscionable – imagine if Bernie was Muslim and they decided to "play it up for Southern Baptists".

The fact that Clintonites are telling Bernie supporters and indeed anyone to the left of them that there's nothing to be concerned about and they need to shut up and stop rocking the boat probably isn't winning Hillary many votes among that crowd, even considering the ones who decided to not vote for Hill based on the leaks.


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