TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

The General US Politics Thread

Go To

Nov 2023 Mod notice:


There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.

If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines before posting here.

Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.

If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules when posting here.


In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.

Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

SgtRicko Since: Jul, 2009
#131701: Jul 22nd 2016 at 7:10:30 PM

I'm starting to get the feeling that the Wikileaks runners aren't fans of Hillary or the Democractic Party. Because they decided to drop another big fat problem on her campaign (and the DNC party, by extension) with a new set of leaked emails between her and other Democratic party members, and now it's being treated as proof about how Bernie was being "sabotaged".

Dammit, this is something the election really doesn't need right now...

nightwyrm_zero Since: Apr, 2010
#131702: Jul 22nd 2016 at 7:11:55 PM

wild mass guessWikileaks are secretly Trump supporters.wild mass guess

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#131703: Jul 22nd 2016 at 7:13:34 PM

They are enabling him, which is basically the same thing.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#131704: Jul 22nd 2016 at 7:18:11 PM

The Intercept is pathetic as well. On the eve of Donald Trump giving a terrifying speech and the Republicans morphing into the neo-fascist party, they....attack the DNC. Because it's not giving them everything they want. And the time to destroy the Democrats is NOW. When they have adopted the most left platform in the party's history and are running against Donald Trump.

This has really soured me on the left, despite being part of it.

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#131705: Jul 22nd 2016 at 7:21:52 PM

In Wikileaks' eyes, America is the Evil Empire. That's reason enough for them to do this sort of stuff.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#131706: Jul 22nd 2016 at 7:23:13 PM

And in Donald Trump's eyes, he is the ultimate being and all were made to serve him. Who cares about their justifications and beliefs at this point?

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#131707: Jul 22nd 2016 at 7:25:07 PM

Again, Wikileaks is either Russians are Jill Stein-esque loonies.

They've got an agenda and it would benefit greatly from Clinton taking a loss.

Oh really when?
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#131708: Jul 22nd 2016 at 7:30:11 PM

[up][up] Because, as extreme as their methods are, I don't think they're necessarily wrong in the notion that America's Empire ("evil" is a pointlessly inflammatory qualifier, and no more applicable to states or state-like entities than "good") is detrimental to the human species as a whole even as it enriches and empowers the United States. Empires are built upon exploitation, and while modern America's imperialism is less blatantly parasitic than 19th century imperialism, it's far from an equal relationship, or even necessarily one that the lesser partners wouldn't be better off without.

edited 22nd Jul '16 7:45:46 PM by CaptainCapsase

GameGuruGG Vampire Hunter from Castlevania (Before Recorded History)
Vampire Hunter
#131709: Jul 22nd 2016 at 7:45:25 PM

[up] While this is true, the current options is not dealing the America's Empire versus dealing with no empire. Instead, the choice is America's brand of Empire versus Russia's and China's respective brands of Empire. In that particular view, America is the better choice comparatively.

edited 22nd Jul '16 7:46:29 PM by GameGuruGG

Wizard Needs Food Badly
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#131710: Jul 22nd 2016 at 7:51:01 PM

One could argue a multipolar world would allow more room for minor nations to develop independently; a prudent leader could play the great powers against one another far more easily in such a setting.

Moreover, I honestly doubt China or Russia's brand of empire would differ all that much from that of the US except as dictated by their respective strategic interests. Victorian Era colonialism came to an end largely due to the fact that such direct empires were no longer cost effective to run; the local populations simply began to put up too much of a fight. Economic factors are, in my eyes the real reason American Imperialism is less direct and less oppressive than 19th century imperialism.

edited 23rd Jul '16 5:33:13 AM by CaptainCapsase

majoraoftime (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#131711: Jul 22nd 2016 at 7:58:54 PM

The Intercept is pathetic as well. On the eve of Donald Trump giving a terrifying speech and the Republicans morphing into the neo-fascist party, they....attack the DNC. Because it's not giving them everything they want. And the time to destroy the Democrats is NOW. When they have adopted the most left platform in the party's history and are running against Donald Trump.

Should all criticism of the Democrats from the left be silenced until Donald Trump is cast back into hell or something?

It's not like The Intercept stopped all negative coverage of the RNC so they could focus on $hillary KKKlinton.

edited 22nd Jul '16 8:00:34 PM by majoraoftime

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#131712: Jul 22nd 2016 at 7:59:47 PM

Frankly, the fact that the DNC was actively working to undermine Sanders was a "secret" in about the same manner as a three year old pretending they didn't knock over the vase. Stupid and counterproductive, yes, but patently obvious to anyone with half a brain.

[up]The point is that this is a war for control of the country's political narrative, and to attack Clinton on stuff like this when there's an honest-to-god white nationalist on the other side is mind-bogglingly stupid.

edited 22nd Jul '16 8:00:48 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#131713: Jul 22nd 2016 at 8:08:28 PM

Should all criticism of the Democrats from the left be silenced until Donald Trump is cast back into hell or something?

Pretty much. The US and the world cannot afford the GOP winning this election. At best you get the US turned into a reactionary shithole that starts trade wars and lets China and Russia run rampant. And the worst case...

I hate to say this, but With Us or Against Us is in full effect until Clinton wins. And she's adopted the majority of Sanders platform anyway, if that wing of the party can't learn to compromise they have no place in politics.

edited 22nd Jul '16 8:19:17 PM by Rationalinsanity

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#131714: Jul 22nd 2016 at 8:13:57 PM

Y'know what? Yes, yes they should. It's called getting some perspective, something Greenwald and his ilk lack.

SgtRicko Since: Jul, 2009
#131715: Jul 22nd 2016 at 8:22:13 PM

Again, Wikileaks is either Russians are Jill Stein-esque loonies.

They've got an agenda and it would benefit greatly from Clinton taking a loss.

The crazier, conspiracy-theorist part of my mind is beginning to seriously convince the saner side of me that this might actually all be some insane ploy from Russia to destabilize the U.S. Seriously, Trump's campaign has mentioned several times about abandoning old allies and leaving NATO to fend for itself if they don't pay up, and given Trump's coziness with Putin's style of politics, the idea that Russia might be quietly helping Trump along isn't so far-fetched anymore...

majoraoftime (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#131716: Jul 22nd 2016 at 8:23:01 PM

Y'know what? Yes, yes they should. It's called getting some perspective, something Greenwald and his ilk lack.

here's some perspective: this whole thread has gotten huffy about ten guys on Reddit talking about Hillary the corporate whore or whatever and The Intercept running two negative articles about the DNC (not Clinton) attempting to undermine Sanders' campaign via his religion, at the same time it talks about Donald Trump wanting to end democracy.

I'm not Glen Greenwald's biggest fan, but I don't think the ranks need to closed quite this tightly.

Also, just some food for thought, here's Freddie Deboer, one of the more articulate socialist writers on the net (and CRITIC OF CLINTON) weighing Trump on a historical scale.

Here's another post of his that sums up what I'm trying to get across:

Democrats will spend the next several months, and the rest of your life, reveling in their moral superiority to their counterparts. And, indeed, if you put a gun to my head, I’d have to concede that liberal Democrats are superior to conservative Republicans. But then I’m not the one with a gun to my head. The millions of undocumented immigrants that Obama has deported had guns to their heads. So do the people living and dying under threat of drone strikes in Pakistan. And so you wonder if liberal Democrats will ever get around to caring as much for the real Muslims and immigrants terrorized by their guy as they do for the hypothetical ones at risk of being terrorized by the other guy.

If you mention the 73 to them, they will call you self-righteous and various other names, but they will offer no means through which we might save the next 73. They know there’s no end to the horror. They’re just too busy spiking the football to care.

edited 22nd Jul '16 8:37:00 PM by majoraoftime

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#131717: Jul 22nd 2016 at 8:36:47 PM

[up]It's more than ten guys on Reddit. The Bernie or Bust crowd is pretty damn huge and that's ignoring the more apathetic Democrats that might just be convinced to not vote. In my opinion anything that harms Clinton's chances at the presidency is a threat to decades of civil rights progress and the stability of the entire world. If these people are willing to throw all that away because they can't stomach voting for a less than ideal candidate then they're welcome to try their luck under Trump. Maybe in four years they'll realize what idiots they were.

Bat178 Since: May, 2011
#131718: Jul 22nd 2016 at 8:38:05 PM

[up] It's a case of Black-and-Gray Morality, not Grey-and-Gray Morality like they think.

edited 22nd Jul '16 8:38:16 PM by Bat178

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#131719: Jul 22nd 2016 at 8:41:26 PM

I don't know if I'd say the Democrats as a whole are grey. Their leadership certainly is but individual members can be white. I have yet to see a mainstream Republican politician that doesn't hold some view I find repugnant.

majoraoftime (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#131720: Jul 22nd 2016 at 8:51:14 PM

It's more than ten guys on Reddit. The Bernie or Bust crowd is pretty damn huge and that's ignoring the more apathetic Democrats that might just be convinced to not vote.

I wouldn't call it 'pretty damn huge'.

edited 22nd Jul '16 8:51:30 PM by majoraoftime

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#131721: Jul 22nd 2016 at 8:52:39 PM

Them voting for Trump isn't the issue, its not voting for Clinton (and more to the point, encouraging others to do likewise).

If the left disrupts the DNC, a lot of people are going to be livid with them.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#131722: Jul 22nd 2016 at 8:56:00 PM

[up][up]That article is from May. The race is a lot closer than it was at that point.

edited 22nd Jul '16 8:56:10 PM by Kostya

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#131723: Jul 22nd 2016 at 9:17:56 PM

All I hear from everyone at my office is how badly Hillary sucks, and while they variously laugh or shake their heads at Trump's antics, there isn't a kind word to be said about her. At this point they could nominate the love child of FDR, Martin Luther King, and Gandhi (don't ask me how that would work) and someone would find a way to craft a media narrative that made that person seem untrustworthy or smug, just so they can play the "ooooh look, we're balanced" card.

I expect Republicans to ignore facts; they've been trained to it by Fox News like dogs in Pavlov's laboratory, but when Democrats toss aside critical thinking skills, we're pretty damn screwed.

edited 22nd Jul '16 9:19:45 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
BrainSewage from that one place Since: Jan, 2001
#131724: Jul 22nd 2016 at 10:12:16 PM

I'm really tempted to call it for Trump right now, for two reasons.

First, because so many Bernie supporters are too hung up on useless idealism to realize just what they're dooming us all to if they don't grit their teeth and just vote for Hillary.

Second, because I really think Trump has more supporters than the polls suggest. Wasn't he behind in the polls for a long time in the primaries? People love him; they're just too embarrassed to admit it to anyone else.

How dare you disrupt the sanctity of my soliloquy?
FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#131725: Jul 22nd 2016 at 11:09:34 PM

DNC needs to get the morale up.


Total posts: 417,856
Top