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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
The Intercept is pathetic as well. On the eve of Donald Trump giving a terrifying speech and the Republicans morphing into the neo-fascist party, they....attack the DNC. Because it's not giving them everything they want. And the time to destroy the Democrats is NOW. When they have adopted the most left platform in the party's history and are running against Donald Trump.
This has really soured me on the left, despite being part of it.
In Wikileaks' eyes, America is the Evil Empire. That's reason enough for them to do this sort of stuff.
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Because, as extreme as their methods are, I don't think they're necessarily wrong in the notion that America's Empire ("evil" is a pointlessly inflammatory qualifier, and no more applicable to states or state-like entities than "good") is detrimental to the human species as a whole even as it enriches and empowers the United States. Empires are built upon exploitation, and while modern America's imperialism is less blatantly parasitic than 19th century imperialism, it's far from an equal relationship, or even necessarily one that the lesser partners wouldn't be better off without.
edited 22nd Jul '16 7:45:46 PM by CaptainCapsase
While this is true, the current options is not dealing the America's Empire versus dealing with no empire. Instead, the choice is America's brand of Empire versus Russia's and China's respective brands of Empire. In that particular view, America is the better choice comparatively.
edited 22nd Jul '16 7:46:29 PM by GameGuruGG
Wizard Needs Food BadlyOne could argue a multipolar world would allow more room for minor nations to develop independently; a prudent leader could play the great powers against one another far more easily in such a setting.
Moreover, I honestly doubt China or Russia's brand of empire would differ all that much from that of the US except as dictated by their respective strategic interests. Victorian Era colonialism came to an end largely due to the fact that such direct empires were no longer cost effective to run; the local populations simply began to put up too much of a fight. Economic factors are, in my eyes the real reason American Imperialism is less direct and less oppressive than 19th century imperialism.
edited 23rd Jul '16 5:33:13 AM by CaptainCapsase
Should all criticism of the Democrats from the left be silenced until Donald Trump is cast back into hell or something?
It's not like The Intercept stopped all negative coverage of the RNC so they could focus on $hillary KKKlinton.
edited 22nd Jul '16 8:00:34 PM by majoraoftime
Frankly, the fact that the DNC was actively working to undermine Sanders was a "secret" in about the same manner as a three year old pretending they didn't knock over the vase. Stupid and counterproductive, yes, but patently obvious to anyone with half a brain.
The point is that this is a war for control of the country's political narrative, and to attack Clinton on stuff like this when there's an honest-to-god white nationalist on the other side is mind-bogglingly stupid.
edited 22nd Jul '16 8:00:48 PM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"Should all criticism of the Democrats from the left be silenced until Donald Trump is cast back into hell or something?
Pretty much. The US and the world cannot afford the GOP winning this election. At best you get the US turned into a reactionary shithole that starts trade wars and lets China and Russia run rampant. And the worst case...
I hate to say this, but With Us or Against Us is in full effect until Clinton wins. And she's adopted the majority of Sanders platform anyway, if that wing of the party can't learn to compromise they have no place in politics.
edited 22nd Jul '16 8:19:17 PM by Rationalinsanity
Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.They've got an agenda and it would benefit greatly from Clinton taking a loss.
The crazier, conspiracy-theorist part of my mind is beginning to seriously convince the saner side of me that this might actually all be some insane ploy from Russia to destabilize the U.S. Seriously, Trump's campaign has mentioned several times about abandoning old allies and leaving NATO to fend for itself if they don't pay up, and given Trump's coziness with Putin's style of politics, the idea that Russia might be quietly helping Trump along isn't so far-fetched anymore...
here's some perspective: this whole thread has gotten huffy about ten guys on Reddit talking about Hillary the corporate whore or whatever and The Intercept running two negative articles about the DNC (not Clinton) attempting to undermine Sanders' campaign via his religion, at the same time it talks about Donald Trump wanting to end democracy
.
I'm not Glen Greenwald's biggest fan, but I don't think the ranks need to closed quite this tightly.
Also, just some food for thought, here's
Freddie Deboer, one of the more articulate socialist writers on the net (and CRITIC OF CLINTON) weighing Trump on a historical scale.
Here's
another post of his that sums up what I'm trying to get across:
If you mention the 73 to them, they will call you self-righteous and various other names, but they will offer no means through which we might save the next 73. They know there’s no end to the horror. They’re just too busy spiking the football to care.
edited 22nd Jul '16 8:37:00 PM by majoraoftime
It's more than ten guys on Reddit. The Bernie or Bust crowd is pretty damn huge and that's ignoring the more apathetic Democrats that might just be convinced to not vote. In my opinion anything that harms Clinton's chances at the presidency is a threat to decades of civil rights progress and the stability of the entire world. If these people are willing to throw all that away because they can't stomach voting for a less than ideal candidate then they're welcome to try their luck under Trump. Maybe in four years they'll realize what idiots they were.
It's a case of Black-and-Gray Morality, not Grey-and-Gray Morality like they think.
edited 22nd Jul '16 8:38:16 PM by Bat178
I wouldn't call it 'pretty damn huge'.
edited 22nd Jul '16 8:51:30 PM by majoraoftime
All I hear from everyone at my office is how badly Hillary sucks, and while they variously laugh or shake their heads at Trump's antics, there isn't a kind word to be said about her. At this point they could nominate the love child of FDR, Martin Luther King, and Gandhi (don't ask me how that would work) and someone would find a way to craft a media narrative that made that person seem untrustworthy or smug, just so they can play the "ooooh look, we're balanced" card.
I expect Republicans to ignore facts; they've been trained to it by Fox News like dogs in Pavlov's laboratory, but when Democrats toss aside critical thinking skills, we're pretty damn screwed.
edited 22nd Jul '16 9:19:45 PM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"I'm really tempted to call it for Trump right now, for two reasons.
First, because so many Bernie supporters are too hung up on useless idealism to realize just what they're dooming us all to if they don't grit their teeth and just vote for Hillary.
Second, because I really think Trump has more supporters than the polls suggest. Wasn't he behind in the polls for a long time in the primaries? People love him; they're just too embarrassed to admit it to anyone else.
How dare you disrupt the sanctity of my soliloquy?

I'm starting to get the feeling that the Wikileaks runners aren't fans of Hillary or the Democractic Party. Because they decided to drop another big fat problem on her campaign (and the DNC party, by extension) with a new set of leaked emails between her and other Democratic party members,
and now it's being treated as proof about how Bernie was being "sabotaged".
Dammit, this is something the election really doesn't need right now...