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Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#131426: Jul 22nd 2016 at 4:21:55 AM

NASA doesn't need the military's budget. A bit of it, sure, but not half. That's kind of silly. However, we could shift the money we spend there around in the economy with significant net gains in terms of fiscal multipliers, even though there would be some disruption and/or dislocation.

For what we've flushed down the toilet on the F-35, we could house every homeless man, woman, and child in America, pay for the college educations of our children, fix all our schools, roads, bridges, etc., and have enough left over to get everyone a free Happy Ending down at Roxanne's Massage Parlor.

edited 22nd Jul '16 4:22:17 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#131427: Jul 22nd 2016 at 4:41:41 AM

Though by all accounts the F-35 is finally overcoming it's issues and the costs are falling as it enters full production.

And even bloated projects like that create a lot of jobs and economic activity.

Point is that military spending isn't some evil money sink. If you want to cut it you need another source of economic activity, be it space or social programs.

edited 22nd Jul '16 4:43:18 AM by Rationalinsanity

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#131428: Jul 22nd 2016 at 4:44:00 AM

[up] Your post and mine are not congruous. Did I not just offer the same?

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#131429: Jul 22nd 2016 at 4:44:26 AM

Oh. For a moment there, I thought you meant a wedding.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#131430: Jul 22nd 2016 at 5:09:28 AM

The best money sink example is probably the tanks that the Pentagon said it didn't want, that was pretty much a literal "pay one person to dig a hole and another to fill it" situation.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#131431: Jul 22nd 2016 at 5:23:52 AM

[up][up][up]Pretty much. I also wrote that when I was still half asleep so I probably skipped your post.tongue

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#131432: Jul 22nd 2016 at 5:28:42 AM

The best money sink example is probably the tanks that the Pentagon said it didn't want, that was pretty much a literal "pay one person to dig a hole and another to fill it" situation.
I read that one of the reasons for that is that even stopping production for as little as a year will result in several involved parts manufacturers going bankrupt from lack of business, as well as massive costs incurred in order to restart production. Is that true?

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#131433: Jul 22nd 2016 at 5:30:37 AM

To restart production of something is an absolutely enormous undertaking. It's why it's actually cheaper to go forward with the F-35 than to restart F-22 production or to produce more older aircraft models to try and save our air force.

Oh really when?
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#131434: Jul 22nd 2016 at 5:32:32 AM

If those manufacturers are so dependent on tanks that they'd go bakrupt without making them then maybe they should think about diversifying a little bit.

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#131435: Jul 22nd 2016 at 5:33:44 AM

About that article on male escorts at the RNC a few pages back, I wonder how much such things say about sexual orientation at all. Yes, it is somewhat ironic for such services to go up during a RNC, but it doesn't necessarily say there are a number of closet homosexuals there.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#131436: Jul 22nd 2016 at 5:39:40 AM

This sort of thing has happened before. I believe the same occurred in Tampa four years ago.

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#131437: Jul 22nd 2016 at 5:46:45 AM

@Garcon, that and the Raptor and the F-35 are two very different planes. Plus, the Pentagon is banking on exports to lower the latter's cost, while it is illegal to export the Raptor.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#131438: Jul 22nd 2016 at 5:59:24 AM

Though by all accounts the F-35 is finally overcoming it's issues and the costs are falling as it enters full production.
Which some of us have been saying would happen all along, while the rest of the internet was doing their best Chicken Little impression. *cough*

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
Medinoc from France (Before Recorded History)
#131439: Jul 22nd 2016 at 6:00:53 AM

The best money sink example is probably the tanks that the Pentagon said it didn't want, that was pretty much a literal "pay one person to dig a hole and another to fill it" situation.
Which reminds me a bit of the broken window fallacy...

in the end, these two persons' energy (and salary) has been wasted while it could have been used to something more productive (or more entertaining for them, if there is literally more people than jobs).

"And as long as a sack of shit is not a good thing to be, chivalry will never die."
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#131440: Jul 22nd 2016 at 6:19:45 AM

[up][up]Sunken Cost Fallacy

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#131441: Jul 22nd 2016 at 6:32:21 AM

That doesn't apply here; it's not throwing good money after bad, it's having the patience to wait for your investment to mature. People were flipping out about the F-35's capabilities while it was still in the testing phase. Now it's closer to being certified for operation (but not actually there yet) and, surprise, it's capabilities are much improved after several rounds of testing. That's the system working as intended.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
TerminusEst from the Land of Winter and Stars Since: Feb, 2010
#131442: Jul 22nd 2016 at 6:41:47 AM

[up][up]

It was the same thing with the F-16. Cost a ridiculous amount of money to fix all the issues, but ended up as an incredibly good plane.

Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#131443: Jul 22nd 2016 at 6:44:34 AM

Hell, the Marine Corps says that they could send their F-35Bs into combat now in a limited role if they were pressed.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#131444: Jul 22nd 2016 at 7:01:03 AM

To be fair, the F-35B (the STOVL version) is the one that people have the fewest complaints about to begin with, because it's set to replace the Harrier, which isn't nearly as beloved as the F-teen series that the F-35A (standard version) and F-35C (carrier version) are set to take over for. The Harrier is also a less capable aircraft in general than the teen series, so the transition to the F-35B is the biggest upgrade by a significant margin.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
carbon-mantis Collector Of Fine Oddities from Trumpland Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Married to my murderer
Collector Of Fine Oddities
#131445: Jul 22nd 2016 at 7:27:28 AM

Some idle musings since quite a few of my friends are gunning for Johnson over Trump now; I find myself wondering what law enforcement would look like under Johnson's rope? Found out today that along with the massive cuts to every imaginable state office and calling for massive layoffs of state/government personnel he's also advocating the complete privatization of law enforcement and the prison system.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#131446: Jul 22nd 2016 at 7:32:15 AM

Yay, Johnson! No social services and rampant corruption allowed to flourish because 20-something hipsters think Libertarianism is the best.

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#131447: Jul 22nd 2016 at 7:40:09 AM

[up][up]Probably much worse than it does now. There was once a time in the early 20th century where fire departments were privatized. They'd let homes burn down because they weren't paid and get into turf wars with rival departments.

Or start block fires deliberately to extort money from citizens. And rob them while they're in their houses putting out the fire.

Oh really when?
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#131448: Jul 22nd 2016 at 7:40:12 AM

I love these people that refuse to vote for Hillary over supposed corruption and then decide to vote for Johnson. Yeah, such a system couldn't possibly be corrupt.

Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#131449: Jul 22nd 2016 at 7:49:07 AM

In terms of strategic voting, Johnson is at least safer than Hillary if the voters would normally vote Republican.

I know the whole "protest vote" backfired with Brexit but voting Johnson in signifigant numbers would send a clear message to the GOP: You idiots, you blew it up.

edited 22nd Jul '16 7:51:29 AM by Elle

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#131450: Jul 22nd 2016 at 7:53:24 AM

[up] And then Charleton Heston damns the GOP to hell?


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