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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

NoName999 Since: May, 2011
#130951: Jul 19th 2016 at 8:44:20 AM

The cops have rules of engagement?

With the way they act, they seem to be more like suggestions than rules. tongue

FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#130953: Jul 19th 2016 at 8:47:06 AM

@Captain - That was months ago. Koch brothers have since decided to sit it out.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#130954: Jul 19th 2016 at 8:48:11 AM

From what I can tell, they are. Police ROE seem to be more discretionary. They're left open to interpretation so that officers can adapt them as circumstances evolve. Soldiers need to be able to know when to shoot a f*cker and when not to shoot a f*cker, as well as how to recognize f*ckers that need to get shot and myriad other threats to their life. Policework is a bit more nuanced.

Problem is, personal biases and abuses of power lurk inside those nuances, so when the rules say, "to the best of your judgment," people can interpret that in wildly different ways.

That's just how I understand it, though. I might be off-base.

edited 19th Jul '16 8:48:36 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#130955: Jul 19th 2016 at 8:48:34 AM

Let's be fair here. Most (many?) police departments have rules of engagement and enforce them reasonably well. Those that don't, however, stand out as problems, and the solidarity among police unions in particular makes it very hard to force change from the outside.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#130957: Jul 19th 2016 at 8:50:45 AM

He testified against himself? For Constitution-obsessed fringe yahoos, the Bundies don't seem to know much about the Fifth Amendment.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#130958: Jul 19th 2016 at 8:53:02 AM

Maybe because they're so obsessed with the Second they didn't get that far?

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#130959: Jul 19th 2016 at 8:53:28 AM

@Shinra: That's what I was talking about; they offered it, and they have since decided to sit out the election. If Trump becomes the new standard for the GOP and the spectre of Trumpismo lingers for years to come, I really cannot see those kinds of people sticking with the GOP, and while Hillary Clinton might be scrupulous (or more likely prudent) enough not to accept their money because of how it would affect her image, that's not going to be true of every democrat.

ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#130960: Jul 19th 2016 at 8:57:04 AM

[up][up],[up][up][up]

It isn't so much a lack of awareness as a combination of wanting the bully pulpit (via court testimony) and conviction that what he did was morally right.

edited 19th Jul '16 9:05:00 AM by ironballs16

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#130961: Jul 19th 2016 at 8:59:12 AM

Reading further, I get what he's doing.

The Bundies are trying to turn their trial into an argument about whether or not the federal government has a right to own the park they were occupying. They're more interested in continuing to have the, "Return the land to the ranchers!" conversation they were trying to have with their guns than in actually proving their innocence. They can't have that conversation if they stay quiet.

They honestly seem to believe that it's possible for their case to end with the government going, "Okay, you got me. Your incredible negotiating skills have humbled us all. No more federal wildlife reserves. Ranchers can have the land, and since you were totes in the right all along, you're free to go."

[nja]

edited 19th Jul '16 9:00:01 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#130962: Jul 19th 2016 at 9:10:20 AM

@"Civvies didn't ask to be here." What about forced draftees?

U.S.A! U.S.A!

Here.

edited 19th Jul '16 9:10:58 AM by TheHandle

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Medinoc from France (Before Recorded History)
#130963: Jul 19th 2016 at 9:14:29 AM

The argument I hear the most against the rules of engagement against IS is "Screw the Rules, They Broke Them First!".

"And as long as a sack of shit is not a good thing to be, chivalry will never die."
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#130964: Jul 19th 2016 at 9:15:24 AM

RE: Vietnam

The notion that the North Vietnamese were completely ruined by the Tet Offensive is one that can actually be questioned. I wrote a paper about that back in fourth year and there wasn't a shortage of arguments about it.

RE: Rules of engagement

I love that General Sherman quote that Tobias Drake gave. That said, what I think a lot of people on the hard-right fail to understand when they want to fight wars that way is that the American Civil War was a very different situation from any of the USA's modern wars. The Confederacy was an existential threat to the USA itself, and under those circumstances, doing anything and everything to obliterate it became understandable, and even justifiable. Grant, Sherman, and Sheridan's willingness to take the war to the Confederate citizenry may not have been morally admirable, but given the circumstances, could be excused.

Conversely, no modern enemy poses a threat to the existence of the USA—much as some people, on the political right and left alike would like to make ISIS out to be one.

NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#130965: Jul 19th 2016 at 9:15:24 AM

There hasn't been a draft in the US since 1972, so I'm not sure how that's relevant to the rules of engagement in recent wars.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#130966: Jul 19th 2016 at 9:18:16 AM

To be blunt, if there was a draft, there would be much greater things to worry about than the ethics of a draft or rules of engagement or anything.

Nothing short of WW3 would cause another draft in the US and at that point I think the continuity of human civilization is gonna be a bigger concern.

Oh really when?
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#130967: Jul 19th 2016 at 9:23:30 AM

Here.

Yes, American Kaiju is awesome and I want one.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#130968: Jul 19th 2016 at 9:25:44 AM

Latest poll (LA Times) has Trump up 1. Within margin of error, but this is worrying.

megarockman from The Sixth Borough (Experienced Trainee)
#130969: Jul 19th 2016 at 9:32:02 AM

The polls for the next couple of weeks is likely going to skew towards Trump between the email thing and the RNC convention.

The damned queen and the relentless knight.
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#130970: Jul 19th 2016 at 9:38:38 AM

I meant draftees among the military opposite the USA.

Hilarious detail: the only two lands with no active military at all are Antarctica... and Iceland.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#130972: Jul 19th 2016 at 9:39:53 AM

I really don't get all the email hooplah. As political scandals go, it's just so incredibly boring.

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#130973: Jul 19th 2016 at 9:42:37 AM

That virus outbreak isn't a surprise. Large scale conventions are an ideal vector for a variety of infectious diseases.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Medinoc from France (Before Recorded History)
#130974: Jul 19th 2016 at 9:42:42 AM

[up][up]They hype it up because it's all they have.

edited 19th Jul '16 9:42:49 AM by Medinoc

"And as long as a sack of shit is not a good thing to be, chivalry will never die."
TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#130975: Jul 19th 2016 at 9:43:11 AM

[up][up][up] Republicans did an investigation into the Clintons using postcards.

This should come as no surprise.

edited 19th Jul '16 9:43:30 AM by TacticalFox88

New Survey coming this weekend!

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