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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#130801: Jul 18th 2016 at 12:31:22 PM

Tobacco is a horrific drug that is almost certain to kill you in the long run, but it's legal status can be justified on the basis that it doesn't kill you right off the bat. In the same way that we don't make eating hot dogs (which are basically just tubes of cholesterol) illegal we can justify keeping tobacco legal. Sure it's going to ruin you forty years down the road, but you aren't going to drop dead in the street of an overdose.

Conversely, drinking arsenic is illegal because that's just an attempt at suicide, and I think that same logic can be used to keep heroin, cocaine, etc, illegal. It's very easy to overdose, it can kill you within months of your first use, and unlike alcohol, there's no way to use it without getting high.

And then of course you have certain drugs like PCP which should stay illegal because they make you a threat to everyone around you. It's a drug whose main side effects are increased anger and delusions of persecution, coupled with a heightened resistance to pain. That's not a fun way to spend your afternoon—that's a weapon.

TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#130802: Jul 18th 2016 at 12:31:42 PM

The logical part of my mind says this is all smoke and mirrors and we'll have Trump as the nominee without too much fuckery.

But then there's that inner gut feeling that says..."LOL..."

New Survey coming this weekend!
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#130803: Jul 18th 2016 at 12:32:01 PM

[up][up][up]The people that aren't shooting at you of course.

edited 18th Jul '16 12:32:30 PM by Kostya

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#130804: Jul 18th 2016 at 12:45:03 PM

So what has been happening at the Convention? To early in got anything or is the fustercluck well underway?

kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#130805: Jul 18th 2016 at 12:45:16 PM

[up][up]So... if Trump isn't shooting at me, does that make him a good guy?

edited 18th Jul '16 12:45:38 PM by kkhohoho

Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#130806: Jul 18th 2016 at 12:45:49 PM

The reason alcohol is legal is not because it's not a highly dangerous hard drug, it's because it can't be banned so long as the majority of the population uses alcohol to some extent and firmly opposes banning it. We tried it once, it didn't work (and the temperance movement was discredited when the government started trying Stupid Evil measures like poisoning alcohol to keep people from drinking).

@Ambar Son Of Deshar: Alcohol absolutely makes you a threat to everyone around you. The first thing to go under the influence is judgment, and because of that, drunk driving and other Alcohol-Induced Idiocy are nigh-impossible to deter.

Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#130807: Jul 18th 2016 at 12:45:57 PM

@Ambar: Suicide being illegal is, as far as I can tell, an artifact of religious morality getting into the law, on the premise of the belief that committing suicide was a fast track to hell. (This should not be construed as encouragement of self harm, BTW.) Practically it makes no sense since if you succeed there's no one to prosecute and aside from emotional trauma it's hard to argue you're causing harm to others.

edited 18th Jul '16 12:46:39 PM by Elle

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#130808: Jul 18th 2016 at 12:46:11 PM

[up][up][up] depends on whether or not the reasonn he isn't shooting is "he's unarmed"

edited 18th Jul '16 12:48:33 PM by sgamer82

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#130809: Jul 18th 2016 at 12:47:41 PM

[up][up]No, suicide is illegal so the police can legally stop you from doing it.

edited 18th Jul '16 12:48:01 PM by LeGarcon

Oh really when?
smokeycut Since: Mar, 2013
#130810: Jul 18th 2016 at 12:49:54 PM

At the very least, that's why it hasn't been made legal yet. If they think you're committing that crime, they don't have to deal with any issues that would come from entering your house without permission in order to help you.

Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#130811: Jul 18th 2016 at 12:50:13 PM

Why not just legalize that under the category of "lifesaving measures"?

Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#130812: Jul 18th 2016 at 12:50:38 PM

Suicide is not illegal in any state at the moment. The police can still stop you as a danger to your own health, but you'll be dealt with through civil involuntary commitment rather than criminal prosecution (in other words, you'd have far more rights if suicide were actually illegal).

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#130813: Jul 18th 2016 at 12:50:59 PM

Because it'd probably just be more legislative and paperwork trouble than it's worth. It works fine as it is now.

Oh really when?
Kayeka (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#130814: Jul 18th 2016 at 12:52:03 PM

[up][up][up]Because that's a lot harder to prove in court if the person being "saved" protests.

edited 18th Jul '16 12:52:22 PM by Kayeka

Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#130815: Jul 18th 2016 at 12:54:10 PM

@Kayeka: No, it's easier.

Criminal prosecution: You would have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the person did factually intend to commit suicide and made overt acts toward doing same. (I have never heard of anyone prosecuting a successful suicide.)

Civil commitment: You have to prove that it's more likely than not that the person may be a danger to themselves.

edited 18th Jul '16 12:54:37 PM by Ramidel

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#130816: Jul 18th 2016 at 1:04:28 PM

[up] With the fact that they did try to harm themselves as a prima facie element of the case.

Generally, society makes the statement that the attempt to kill oneself (absent debated scenarios like assisted suicide for terminally ill patients) is inherent proof that one is not in a competent state of mind and may have one's rights suspended until one receives appropriate treatment.

I do not object to this in part because I share the underlying belief. I have no special fetish for personal liberty that might supersede it. That there might be a few situations in which we should grant the right to voluntary self-termination does not invalidate the principle that we have a general interest in preventing it.

Hypothetical future societies in which we've conquered natural death and so the right to stop living is as sacred as we once held the right to keep doing it are not within the scope of this conversation.

edited 18th Jul '16 1:10:28 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#130817: Jul 18th 2016 at 1:05:00 PM

I think most if not all states also have "good Samaritan" laws that shield you from liability for damage you might cause during a good-faith attempt to save someone.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#130819: Jul 18th 2016 at 1:11:06 PM

[up] Oh ho! So the "Night of Benghazi" might be suborned by the resistance movement? Pass the Popcorn, but stay far away in case the shooting starts.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#130820: Jul 18th 2016 at 1:11:07 PM

[up][up]Do it, save the world.

edited 18th Jul '16 1:11:22 PM by LeGarcon

Oh really when?
smokeycut Since: Mar, 2013
#130821: Jul 18th 2016 at 1:12:54 PM

Oh, I am so praying that this happens.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#130822: Jul 18th 2016 at 1:14:27 PM

Which, the Never Trump vote winning or a mass murder spree? Because I'm not quite desperate enough to hope for the latter, and the former, while briefly funny for anyone who doesn't have to be within ten miles of the convention, would have some pretty bad consequences for our political system.

edited 18th Jul '16 1:16:03 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Kayeka (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#130823: Jul 18th 2016 at 1:14:31 PM

[up][up][up]The way I see it, the world had already been saved, since Trump was never actually going to beat Clinton.

Actually taking away Trump's candy now that it's hanging in front of his nose might actually be starting a riot with a very unpretty aftermath.

edited 18th Jul '16 1:14:59 PM by Kayeka

Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#130825: Jul 18th 2016 at 1:15:59 PM

I am not so optimistic that it will "save the world" but I do want the Republican party broken. But I also know there's a high chance it might not happen peacefully.


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