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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

OblongReality Unwanted Anachronism. Since: Aug, 2015 Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
Unwanted Anachronism.
#130126: Jul 14th 2016 at 8:22:18 AM

@Le Garcon

To be fair, the Russians gain a lot just by keeping him alive and addicted to their protection. Until we have Snowden in the US, we can't know all that he knows, and it becomes the famous "Known Unknown", giving Russia a lot of bluff power.

speedyboris Since: Feb, 2010
#130127: Jul 14th 2016 at 8:25:46 AM

[up]x3 They're letting him stay to stick it to the U.S. If you recall, back when Snowden first got stuck in Russia, Putin said something to the effect of "It doesn't matter to me whether he stays or goes." The implication being that, since the DOJ wants Snowden brought back to the U.S. so badly, his not playing ball is a way of flexing his political muscle.

edited 14th Jul '16 8:26:29 AM by speedyboris

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#130128: Jul 14th 2016 at 8:27:41 AM

Manning and Snowden should both rot in prison, they endangered too many people. Many of whom were doing good work or who weren't even involved with the US government.

They are great case studies for how not to be a whistle-blower.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#130129: Jul 14th 2016 at 8:28:37 AM

Clinton invokes Abraham Lincoln, making her own "House Divided" speech in the same building Lincoln gave the original 158 years ago. She spoke on the topics of racism, unity, Trump, and her plans for her presidency. I've clipped out and highlighted some of the most interesting parts.

I actually teared up while reading that.

By all rights, that speech alone should win her the Presidency in a landslide. Let's hope that actually occurs.

Seriously, that brightened up my entire week. I needed that.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#130130: Jul 14th 2016 at 8:38:54 AM

[up]On the one hand, that speech is amazing, (if maybe a bit pandering to what the people want to hear, but it's probably just The Cynic in me talking,) but on the other hand, I'm still waiting for Hilary to say, 'I am not a crook!'. I mean, I get that she seems to mean well enough and may even do a good job at President, but the fact that she basically lied in everyone's faces still really puts me off of her. If Donald Trump weren't Option B, I'm honestly not sure if I'd vote for her.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#130133: Jul 14th 2016 at 8:40:57 AM

@Rational: As quick as you have been in the past like to accuse leftists of "refusing to settle for anything less than perfection" or "insisting on ideological purity" you are engaged in the exact same type of thinking here.

Had they tried to "do the right thing" and gone through "proper" channels, Manning and Snowden would not only have faced reprisal from the American government, but the public would still be in the dark about the various misdeeds they brought to light. While it would have indeed been preferable if Snowden had stayed in the states after his disclosure and been executed or imprisoned for life for doing so, I do not think it is reasonable to expect everyone to be willing to die for this cause, especially if you would not be willing to do the same.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#130134: Jul 14th 2016 at 8:48:46 AM

[up][up]I don't recall her lying about using the private server. That's against official protocol but it's not lying.

smokeycut Since: Mar, 2013
#130135: Jul 14th 2016 at 8:49:21 AM

Manning revealed evidence of war crimes. Snowden sold our secrets to Russia. There's a difference.

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#130136: Jul 14th 2016 at 8:49:40 AM

My issue with them isn't ideological. They put people, many of them innocent, at risk.

Besides, Snowden isn't at risk of execution. The US doesn't execute people for espionage in practice and his actions don't meet the narrow definition of treason used in the US.

[up]Manning also leaked the names of informants and civilians in dangerous areas. Her leak was too wide and parts should have been redacted. I'll find more detailed sources when I have access to my laptop.

edited 14th Jul '16 8:51:39 AM by Rationalinsanity

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#130137: Jul 14th 2016 at 8:51:04 AM

The "lies" that Clinton supposedly told were about knowingly transmitting classified documents via the private email account. All the rest is conspiracy theories and right-wing talking points.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#130138: Jul 14th 2016 at 8:59:03 AM

No, she made some pretty damned Blatant Lies.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#130140: Jul 14th 2016 at 9:10:52 AM

Nah, probably just one or two. And the reasons are called "Military-Industrial Complex".

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#130141: Jul 14th 2016 at 9:13:10 AM

Do we really want to do this again?

Krieger22 Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018 from Malaysia Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
#130142: Jul 14th 2016 at 9:16:29 AM

It would be a heck of a lot more plausible if the military-industrial complex wasn't a complete disaster at getting their new products shipped.

I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot
Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#130143: Jul 14th 2016 at 9:17:51 AM

[up] And the military side of things knew what they wanted (and could afford it)...

Keep Rolling On
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#130144: Jul 14th 2016 at 9:18:18 AM

[up][up][up]I only brought up that she obviously and blatantly lied on several key points about the email stuff. Which she did. Period. I'm not the one who brought up my fears of her hawkishness, which are a completely unrelated matter.

As for the MIC, their incompetence only makes things worse. I'd be happy if they were competent and precise. It's greedy, violent, scaredy morons with big guns that I'm afraid of.

edited 14th Jul '16 9:20:26 AM by TheHandle

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#130145: Jul 14th 2016 at 9:19:22 AM

Good bloody lord, enough of the Clinton is Warmonger Extraordinaire simply because she's somewhat more willing to use force than Obama (who, as any international affairs expert would tell you, was TOO gun-shy, going the opposite extreme to Bush and yet still screwing things up). You want an actual warmonger, look at Flynn or Mac Arthur or anyone else who has advocated overreactions to problems. And no, war alone is not an overeaction.

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#130146: Jul 14th 2016 at 9:19:51 AM

Low intensity wars like Iraq and Afghanistan are actually going to hurt the military industrial complex than hurt it. We can't support that sorta stuff anymore.

They make most of their money by churning out bogus R&D projects and deliberately inflating costs.

Oh really when?
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#130147: Jul 14th 2016 at 9:21:16 AM

are actually going to hurt the military industrial complex than hurt it.

What?

[up][up]Obama is too gun-shy? Tell that to all the innocents that got turned into bug-splatter by the CIA.

edited 14th Jul '16 9:22:32 AM by TheHandle

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#130148: Jul 14th 2016 at 9:22:25 AM

[up][up]

We can't support that sorta stuff anymore.

I know — performing a repeat of the Second — let alone the First Gulf War — is impossible with the current level of forces in the West.

[up] Lots of cheap equipment, I guess.

edited 14th Jul '16 9:23:25 AM by Greenmantle

Keep Rolling On
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#130149: Jul 14th 2016 at 9:25:47 AM

[up][up]I accidentally a word there.

Oh really when?
Krieger22 Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018 from Malaysia Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
#130150: Jul 14th 2016 at 9:26:53 AM

[up][up][up]I think you're leaving out something there.

Yes, having SOF kick down doors and drag people out of cars would be much more surgical than having it all vaporised with a Hellfire, but one of them is something the American public doesn't believe happens (Fox & Co. are still trying to deny American airstrikes in Syria FFS) or are unwilling to permit because they don't want direct intervention. The other is cheaper than training SOF.

I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot

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