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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#130101: Jul 14th 2016 at 7:41:19 AM

Russia's got just a bit of a history of being total assholes on the world stage alongside China. And then you have their actions in Crimea, and the complete clusterfuck that is domestic Russian politics.

Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#130102: Jul 14th 2016 at 7:43:37 AM

Putin, I gather, also has an oversized ego, wants to "make Russia great again" and sees sticking it to the US as a means of doing it.

Ogodei Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers from The front lines Since: Jan, 2011
Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers
#130103: Jul 14th 2016 at 7:44:03 AM

The Greens get that there's a large group of disaffected first-time voters currently oriented towards the Democrats thanks to Sanders, who are also quite crushed by Bernie's apparent "betrayal," so she's trying to reach out to them with buzzwords. Snowden's a hero for most of those people.

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#130104: Jul 14th 2016 at 7:44:36 AM

The Russians are dicks but they've got an MO and in some cases like the South Ossetian conflict they've got proper justification. They're not just there being dicks to be dicks. Nor are they just expansionist for the sake of expansion.

edited 14th Jul '16 7:52:00 AM by LeGarcon

Oh really when?
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#130105: Jul 14th 2016 at 7:45:45 AM

Which powerful country doesn't have a reputation for being complete assholes on the world stage?

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#130106: Jul 14th 2016 at 7:46:09 AM

Perhaps because he has no other choice; Russia would dump him in a river if he wasn't playing along, and he'd spend the rest of his days in a hole where the sun doesn't shine if the US got its hands on him.
The fact that he committed a crime and his choices are now "face consequences for it" and "face different consequences for it" does not make him a victim.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#130107: Jul 14th 2016 at 7:48:46 AM

And it should be said his crime was not telling the general public that the NSA was spying on them.

His crime was deliberately turning over shit tons of documents and operations playbooks to the Russians and compromising our ability to gather intelligence on both them and groups like ISIS and Al Qaeda.

edited 14th Jul '16 7:48:59 AM by LeGarcon

Oh really when?
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#130108: Jul 14th 2016 at 7:50:45 AM

Also, I'm sorry. Who forced Snowden to run to Russia. What idiot wouldn't see that rushing straight into the arms of a brutal authoritarian wouldn't end well for him?

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#130109: Jul 14th 2016 at 7:51:03 AM

Geopolitics are never that one sided. Russia's current activities are part of a chain of events going back to the events and the immediate aftermath of the collapse of the Soviet Union, and the eastward expansion of NATO in violation of the spirit (but not the law, via Loophole Abuse) of the talks over German reunification, which was itself a tremendous Olive Branch from the Soviets.

All involved parties have done their part to escalate matters, but the tremendously lopsided power dynamics of the forces involved means that Russia is not in a position to be the one starting the process of deescelating matters; they have a lot more to lose then the United States does.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#130110: Jul 14th 2016 at 7:52:32 AM

The United States has never had territorial aspirations on European soil. All it wants is to bring everyone into its economic and cultural sphere. You can regard that as "imperialistic" if you insist, but that doesn't make it the same as what the Soviet Union tried to do.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#130111: Jul 14th 2016 at 7:53:28 AM

That's fair enough but it was still very much a power play and done to spite the Russians.

Oh really when?
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#130112: Jul 14th 2016 at 7:59:03 AM

Who spent most of the mid-late 20th century aiming thousands of tanks and millions of soldiers at the countries we were protecting in NATO. Historical animosity goes both ways.

edited 14th Jul '16 8:00:42 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#130113: Jul 14th 2016 at 8:00:35 AM

It does, which is why I don't see the point of this last post, since the ally-threatening was mutual.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#130115: Jul 14th 2016 at 8:05:27 AM

[up][up] It's the same ends as classical imperialism (economic exploitation of foreign resources) pursued through different means. The great innovation of the American empire (versus the British and other great powers) was the realization that you can exert almost as much control over a region without provoking anywhere near the same amount of resistance if you let them have their own name on a map.

It has similar economic consequences-in exploited regions', all economic development is focused towards meeting the demands of foreign consumers, and while quality of life increases to point, it becomes effectively impossible for regions so exploited to join the developed world.

edited 14th Jul '16 8:13:38 AM by CaptainCapsase

speedyboris Since: Feb, 2010
#130116: Jul 14th 2016 at 8:05:51 AM

"His crime was deliberately turning over shit tons of documents and operations playbooks to the Russians and compromising our ability to gather intelligence on both them and groups like ISIS and Al Qaeda."

He didn't hand over documents to the Russians. He handed them to journalist Glenn Greenwald when he was still in Hong Kong.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#130117: Jul 14th 2016 at 8:08:26 AM

Documents that could still exist on any device Snowden had

Ogodei Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers from The front lines Since: Jan, 2011
Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers
#130118: Jul 14th 2016 at 8:10:15 AM

Soviet Union was more or less the same, actually, except for the near-abroad territories they seized in the aftermath of WWII (Silesia, Karelia, East Prussia, Moldavia and Bessarabia as well as the Baltic Countries). The rest was just about creating a network of allied states.

ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#130119: Jul 14th 2016 at 8:10:20 AM

[up]

This - that was Snowden's original crime, and the reason he's wanted on Treason charges.

In US-exclusive news, the Fresno PD just released the body-cam footage of the shooting of Dylan Noble, and it doesn't look good. Aside from the original report being someone wearing camouflage with a rifle (Noble's wearing black t-shirt and khakis), I can admit that the first two shots were kind of justified... but the last two shots were absolutely not.

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
speedyboris Since: Feb, 2010
#130120: Jul 14th 2016 at 8:10:44 AM

[up]x3 They could, but Snowden claims he took nothing of the sort with him after he left Hong Kong. Now if you don't believe Snowden, there's really nothing I can do to change your mind.

edited 14th Jul '16 8:10:54 AM by speedyboris

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#130121: Jul 14th 2016 at 8:11:40 AM

I find the words of known liars who have stolen and dumped classified documents and were then caught in lies on those accounts to be just a little less than impeccable, I must admit.

edited 14th Jul '16 8:14:09 AM by Lightysnake

TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#130122: Jul 14th 2016 at 8:13:14 AM

Speaking of impeccable words, please correct your grammar.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#130123: Jul 14th 2016 at 8:13:51 AM

That and no power would house a traitor of one of their enemies for free. You pay to play.

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#130124: Jul 14th 2016 at 8:15:25 AM

The biggest evidence that Snowden leaked information to the Russians is that he's still alive. If he's got nothing to offer they've got no reason to let him stay there. Or not to toss his body in a ditch.

Oh really when?
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#130125: Jul 14th 2016 at 8:19:34 AM

So I'm seeing a lot of Bernie supporters pushing for Gary Johnson now. Anybody have a clue why this is? Stein I get but Johnson is the antithesis of everything Bernie wanted.


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