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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#130026: Jul 13th 2016 at 12:38:54 PM

The (specious) argument goes that, if you haven't served, you have no right to send our soldiers into war, but that same logic applied to other areas means that you aren't permitted to make decisions about any group if you aren't or haven't been a member.

[up] And how do we know that she won't do that? She's expressed admiration for Obama's foreign policy and was a member of his foreign policy staff at State. It's extraordinarily unlikely that she'd start her term by going around and undoing everything he's accomplished for the sake of ... what, exactly? There's no rationale.

[down] I wasn't addressing your points specifically.

edited 13th Jul '16 12:40:35 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
OblongReality Unwanted Anachronism. Since: Aug, 2015 Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
Unwanted Anachronism.
#130027: Jul 13th 2016 at 12:39:32 PM

[up]

It wasn't my position that service was required. I posted information regarding the possibility of her service, that's it.

LogoP Party Crasher from the Land of Deep Blue Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: You can be my wingman any time
Party Crasher
#130028: Jul 13th 2016 at 12:44:24 PM

Speaking of Clinton, why did her numbers took a dive today? Two Quinnpiac polls her falling behind Trump in FL & PA and being tied with him in Ohio.

538 also had her chance of winning the election dropping from 78% to 70% almost overnight.

Bernie's endorsement hurt her or what?

It is sometimes an appropriate response to reality to go insane.
megarockman from The Sixth Borough (Experienced Trainee)
#130029: Jul 13th 2016 at 12:45:28 PM

No, this is the email thing making itself felt now - polls would have been conducted last week at the latest.

The damned queen and the relentless knight.
OblongReality Unwanted Anachronism. Since: Aug, 2015 Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
Unwanted Anachronism.
#130030: Jul 13th 2016 at 12:46:03 PM

Media narrative seems to be the final report regarding BENGHAZI!!!!!!eleven!!!!! mixed with the report regarding the server, and the Speaker of the House asking Clapper to not brief her have collided to create a surge in polling responses to the negative.

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#130031: Jul 13th 2016 at 12:52:13 PM

I'm not familiar with that last one (the request not to debrief her)

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#130032: Jul 13th 2016 at 12:52:21 PM

As noted, it's just public reaction to the "Crooked Hillary" narrative regarding the release of the Emailgate report. It'll fade from memory by the time the election rolls around, especially after the two candidates have had a few debates.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Deadbeatloser22 from Disappeared by Space Magic (Great Old One) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
#130033: Jul 13th 2016 at 12:54:27 PM

No it won't, because the right-wing media won't shut the fuck up about it.

"Yup. That tasted purple."
OblongReality Unwanted Anachronism. Since: Aug, 2015 Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
Unwanted Anachronism.
#130034: Jul 13th 2016 at 12:58:29 PM

@sgamer82

Clapper, as DNI, is supposed to brief major party presidential candidates on classified information regarding extant, past, and foreseen events involving national security. The reasoning is that they will then be able to speak as to their positions on certain things with more honesty, without having to seem like an idiot when their guess is completely uninformed.

Ryan is just trying to underscore his disdain regarding Clinton's actions with the server, there wasn't any chance that someone who is the DNP's choice was going to not be given access. If the FBI isn't charging her, DNI doesn't have a choice.

Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#130035: Jul 13th 2016 at 1:32:58 PM

I didn't know that was a thing. The thought arises in my imagination that Trump has the temperament that he might blab something he shouldn't.

Long shot, I know.

edited 13th Jul '16 1:33:28 PM by Elle

Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#130036: Jul 13th 2016 at 1:39:48 PM

[up] Which is why I can imagine President Trump being told absolutely nothing of importance, however much he wants it...

Keep Rolling On
OblongReality Unwanted Anachronism. Since: Aug, 2015 Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
Unwanted Anachronism.
#130037: Jul 13th 2016 at 1:43:33 PM

Trump will receive the same NDA paperwork that anyone else does who is given the same type of briefing. If he says something truly catastrophic, it will be because Clapper screwed up and told him that truly catastrophic thing. "Need to know" is treated very seriously in the Intelligence Community, and a lot of the time it is the stuff that you don't think is important that is the really important stuff.

Most of what Trump will find out (Clinton knows a lot based on her time as Sec State and in Congress) will not be of the "Sent to Quantico for ever and ever" level, but instead "Serious fines and disbarred from having any further access" type.

Those few key things that will land him in Federal Fuck Me In The Ass Prison even a raving egotist like Trump will recognize and not go bragging about. Clapper's not stupid, he'll make sure Trump can be trusted with stuff before briefing him.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#130038: Jul 13th 2016 at 1:52:16 PM

[up] I do have to wonder about what Trump will do with the material in his security briefing. I'm not convinced the guy can keep a secret.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
pwiegle Cape Malleum Majorem from Nowhere Special Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Cape Malleum Majorem
#130039: Jul 13th 2016 at 1:56:56 PM

[up]He can keep a secret about how much money he actually has to his name. He may claim to be a mega-gazillionaire, but I have my doubts...

This Space Intentionally Left Blank.
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#130040: Jul 13th 2016 at 2:03:12 PM

He can lie pretty well, which is a skill related to keeping secrets. Of course, he also seems extremely impulsive, which is not conducive to secret keeping.

edited 13th Jul '16 2:03:30 PM by Protagonist506

Leviticus 19:34
Deadbeatloser22 from Disappeared by Space Magic (Great Old One) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
#130041: Jul 13th 2016 at 2:06:30 PM

"Look at all this stuff those stupid commies don't want you to know..."

"Yup. That tasted purple."
pwiegle Cape Malleum Majorem from Nowhere Special Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Cape Malleum Majorem
#130042: Jul 13th 2016 at 2:07:36 PM

Thing is, Trump can keep a secret to cover his own ass. But when it comes to keeping secrets to protect somebody else, when the consequences don't directly and immediately affect him personally... I don't think so.

This Space Intentionally Left Blank.
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#130043: Jul 13th 2016 at 3:11:05 PM

@Elle

Most of the people I've encountered who use the chickenhawk label are liberal pacifists to disparage politicians for deciding to send the US to Iraq when they've never experienced the horrors of war personally. Usually they excuse Obama because he was a little kid too young to be conscripted to Vietnam (in context less a less batty criticism than it sounds, since soldiers were conscripted).

Though it's still dumb to apply it to Clinton for that same reason because while yeah, conscription disproportionately affected people from less privileged upbringings, and a lot of politicians who were of age during that time were cushy spoiled brats who could use their wealth or family connections to weasel their way out of fighting, unlike, say, John McCain, women weren't allowed in combat positions even if they wanted it.

edited 13th Jul '16 3:19:58 PM by AlleyOop

desdendelle Hooded Crow from Land of Milk and Honey (Sergeant) Relationship Status: Hiding
Hooded Crow
#130044: Jul 13th 2016 at 3:12:23 PM

It's dumb, because wars happen — fact of life — and that sort of logic either means having soldiers (ex- or otherwise) decide on that sort of thing or having wars forced on you.

On empty crossroads, seek the eclipse -- for when Sol and Lua align, the lost shall find their way home.
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#130045: Jul 13th 2016 at 3:29:26 PM

The only time the chickenhawk label is fair is if someone likes to go on about the glory and honour of service without having served.

Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#130046: Jul 13th 2016 at 3:35:57 PM

The argument is increasingly less relevant in an era of drone strikes and long distance missiles, though you can certainly argue that's problematic in other ways. And yes, the fact that we're an all-volunteer military these days is also relevant as there's at least some assumption you knew (or should have known) and accepted the risk going in (though that's no excuse for politicians to be cavalier about it).

edited 13th Jul '16 3:36:53 PM by Elle

Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#130048: Jul 13th 2016 at 4:30:14 PM

[up] Well, even Republicans have standards. tongue

Shadow?
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#130049: Jul 13th 2016 at 4:42:52 PM

There are a good number of republicans 'Chickenhawk' can apply to. Bush himself, Cheney, Saxby Chambliss, Thompson, Giuliani...to non-politician drum beaters like Limbaugh, John Wayne and (while he was certainly no Republican) Christopher Hitchens who seemed to view supporting a war the moral equivalent to actually fighting in it.

Referring to Bush Jr, obviously in the above. HW Bush, by all accounts, served with bravery in WW 2

Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#130050: Jul 13th 2016 at 4:50:20 PM

I'm a white college Republican. I loathe Trump, because he's dishonest even by politician standards, rude, a dixicrat at best, a fascist at worst, and his wig looks kind of ugly. Plus, socialists keep complaining about Hillary, so she must be doing something right!

edited 13th Jul '16 4:51:38 PM by Protagonist506

Leviticus 19:34

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