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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Artificius from about a foot and a half away from a monitor. Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Norwegian Wood
#130001: Jul 13th 2016 at 11:24:09 AM

I'll have to watch his TED talk a bit later, do some more Googling, but Stavridis seems like a good pick for Clinton. He's not a hawk, whereas that was one of the things about Clinton which gave me pause.

edited 13th Jul '16 11:25:11 AM by Artificius

"I have no fear, for fear is the little death that kills me over and over. Without fear, I die but once."
ILoveDogs Since: May, 2010
#130002: Jul 13th 2016 at 11:25:58 AM

I think that she's mostly getting the word out that she's vetting him in order to both increase name recognition for when he (may) run for public office, and to bait Trump into picking Flynn; at which point, she will pick Warren or Kaine.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#130003: Jul 13th 2016 at 11:28:04 AM

I know other people have asked this but what exactly makes Clinton a "Hawk"? People keep calling her that, but there doesn't seem to be a lot of explanation, just an assumption it's true. The closet thing I've come to notice is her voting for war in Iraq (something we've gone over enough) and that she would be willing to use military force in some situation.

Does anyone have anything more specific, because otherwise the term doesn't seem to have a lot of meaning.

edited 13th Jul '16 11:31:28 AM by LSBK

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#130004: Jul 13th 2016 at 11:29:14 AM

To me, the floating of that pick indicates a desire to have a VP who will be a credible voice in combating terrorism and other global threats, increasing her administration's foreign policy focus, which seems odd since she's supposed to have a lot of that already. I would be disappointed if she's picking Stavridis just so she can have an authoritative masculine voice behind her.

edited 13th Jul '16 11:48:27 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
PhiSat Planeswalker from Everywhere and Nowhere Since: Jan, 2011
ILoveDogs Since: May, 2010
#130006: Jul 13th 2016 at 11:36:27 AM

edited 13th Jul '16 11:54:59 AM by ILoveDogs

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#130007: Jul 13th 2016 at 11:38:38 AM

[up][up] Sarcasm, I know, but Bill can't be VP because he can't be President again.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#130008: Jul 13th 2016 at 11:38:55 AM

@LSBK

I asked that myself a few pages back and the impression I got from the discussion is that there are some who equate "hawk" with "warmonger who will launch a war at the flimsiest excuse" while the general opinion is more that, yes, she's more willing to take a hard-line on military intervention but isn't about to go actively looking for trouble.

Edit: Fixed link.

edited 13th Jul '16 11:49:35 AM by sgamer82

TerminusEst from the Land of Winter and Stars Since: Feb, 2010
#130009: Jul 13th 2016 at 11:42:29 AM

[up]x3

To get credibility with the Republicans. And other more conservative minded people, probably even the military (to avoid the Flynn situation).

Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele
Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#130010: Jul 13th 2016 at 11:55:08 AM

The Republican pundits take every chance they can to tear at Hillary's foreign policy credentials as it is, so if she's going for cross-party appeal it's not a ridiculous supposition.

That said, the only VP I can think of in living memory that had a meaningful policy influence was Chaney.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#130011: Jul 13th 2016 at 11:56:51 AM

Sarcasm, I know, but Bill can't be VP because he can't be President again.

Which is why she should pick Obama instead!

...wait....

Yes, I'm sure there are no problems with that.

edited 13th Jul '16 11:57:05 AM by TobiasDrake

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LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#130012: Jul 13th 2016 at 11:57:36 AM

[up][up]And even then it was only because Bush Jr. was little more than a puppet.

Oh really when?
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#130013: Jul 13th 2016 at 11:58:16 AM

[up][up][up] And Cheney turned out to be a demon in human form that we'd have been better off dropping in the river, so...

edited 13th Jul '16 11:58:22 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#130014: Jul 13th 2016 at 12:02:54 PM

With Clinton she's not only less fight shy but she's also more supportive of authoritarian allies than Obama has been. She's more willing to tolerate the kind of crap Turkey, Pakistan, Egpy and other countries with questionable records do.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#130015: Jul 13th 2016 at 12:08:22 PM

that she would be willing to use military force in some situation.
That's pretty much all there is to it. Being willing to use military force in an aggressive manner (ie, in a circumstances other than in response to direct attack) makes you a "hawk" in some people's minds.

I won't deny that Clinton isn't more hawkish than some, but to call her a war hawk is a gross exaggeration. Yes, military force remains part of her foreign policy toolbox, but it's far from her go-to default response that many people would have you believe.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#130016: Jul 13th 2016 at 12:09:10 PM

As much as I'd like the US to at least vocally disapprove of every "ally" with authoritarian leanings, one has to pick their battles in the world of diplomacy, no?

edited 13th Jul '16 12:11:20 PM by Elle

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#130017: Jul 13th 2016 at 12:14:02 PM

The term I've seen people apply to her is chickenhawk aka people who vote in support of a war without having fought in combat themselves, which isn't really a fair label since even if she wanted to serve I don't think they would've allowed her to.

Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#130018: Jul 13th 2016 at 12:16:39 PM

They would have to apply that term to Obama as well though and most of the members of Congress that year.

edited 13th Jul '16 12:17:16 PM by Elle

desdendelle Hooded Crow from Land of Milk and Honey (Sergeant) Relationship Status: Hiding
Hooded Crow
#130019: Jul 13th 2016 at 12:21:36 PM

[up][up] This chickenhawk thing might make sense in a place with conscription and warfare, for example Israel, but not in a place where less than a percent of the population have served in the armed forces.

On empty crossroads, seek the eclipse -- for when Sol and Lua align, the lost shall find their way home.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#130020: Jul 13th 2016 at 12:22:20 PM

If you tally up all the members of Congress who voted for Iraq without any military background, you'd have a pretty significant list. The only reasons we care about this particular one are that she's running for President and that the right has a hate-boner for her.

As noted [up], requiring military service to be President automatically excludes well over 95% of the U.S. population. Way to support democratic ideals, folks.

[down] Who the blankety-blank cares? It's not like wars are our primary international activity in the current century.

edited 13th Jul '16 12:24:07 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
OblongReality Unwanted Anachronism. Since: Aug, 2015 Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
Unwanted Anachronism.
#130021: Jul 13th 2016 at 12:22:53 PM

[up] I'm not really pro labeling Clinton as a warhawk, or chickenhawk. However, she could have served if she wanted to. Born in '47, of age in '65, and women have been able to serve in the USAF since '48.

The math works pretty well.

Edit to respond: Someone above mentioned that she couldn't have served, possibly. I was providing information regarding that statement. You may need to breathe deeper.

edited 13th Jul '16 12:27:09 PM by OblongReality

Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#130022: Jul 13th 2016 at 12:29:29 PM

'65 was the middle of the Vietnam War. I'd call it eyebrow-raising if someone wanted to enlist voluntarily in an effort most now agree was a Bad Idea.

OblongReality Unwanted Anachronism. Since: Aug, 2015 Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
Unwanted Anachronism.
#130023: Jul 13th 2016 at 12:34:15 PM

[up] Especially someone with Clinton's position record.

However, the possibility was more than open for her to serve. Many did, many didn't. Women have a long history in the US Armed Forces, and have accomplished much good in their time in that service.

smokeycut Since: Mar, 2013
#130024: Jul 13th 2016 at 12:37:49 PM

Still, you don't need to serve to make a decision over whether we should go to war again. They have little to do with each other.

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#130025: Jul 13th 2016 at 12:38:47 PM

The thing with Autoritarian regimes is that the US doesn't need them all, Obama rebuilt a lot of the US's image abroad, if Clinton isn't iwlling to even ask authoritarian allies to tone it down some of Obama's work will be undone.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran

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