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NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#129776: Jul 12th 2016 at 12:13:27 PM

Well, some Europeans like me are fed up with Americans destroying our culture and replacing it with their own and with our depictions in the media, where the Americans typically depict us as evil, useless, or we get blown up or destroyed some other way.
I never quite understood this attitude. There's no American conspiracy to shove our culture down the rest of the world's collective throat. American media is made almost exclusively with American audiences in mind. The rest of the world buys it from us anyway... then complains that it's too American-centric.

I'm not saying that it's not legitimate criticism of the work (I complain about the same thing when America is the Designated Villain in anime, which happens not-infrequently), but getting salty at America-in-general over it is ridiculous.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
Lennik (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#129777: Jul 12th 2016 at 12:17:42 PM

Jill Stein's being an asshole.

Seriously, do people have no idea what happens when you split the vote?

That's right, boys. Mondo cool.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#129778: Jul 12th 2016 at 12:18:58 PM

All one percent of it? I don't think that we have much to worry about from the Greens. Anyway, if Stein picks up some "Bernie or Bust" votes, at least they aren't voting for Trump. It won't matter to Clinton either way.

While I respect many elements of the Green Party's platform, in American politics they're the little kid in the gymnasium that keeps hopping up and down shouting, "Pick me, ooh, pick me, pick me! At least notice I exist. Anyone? Hello?"

edited 12th Jul '16 12:22:11 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#129779: Jul 12th 2016 at 12:29:53 PM

I don't think enough mainstream voters are aware that Stein exists for the vote to be split significantly.

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#129780: Jul 12th 2016 at 12:31:48 PM

[up][up] If the GOP is indeed on a terminal death spiral as many observers have speculated, we cannot allow the libertarian party to take its place as the opposition; we'd get recreational marijuana and a lot less chatter about our lord and savior Jesus Christ, and very little else in terms of meaningful change in a time when it is so desperately needed. As unreasonable as many of the Greens are, were they to become a major opposition party, their worldview is not totally incompatible with the democrats in the same way that of the GOP is, and as such, there is room for compromise. That possibility is why I intend to vote green this election; of the left wing aspirants, they're the only one with even the beginnings of a base.

edited 12th Jul '16 12:33:36 PM by CaptainCapsase

Bat178 Since: May, 2011
#129781: Jul 12th 2016 at 12:31:48 PM

[up][up][up][up][up] Difference is you have the biggest film industry in Hollywood and export your media worldwide, while most other countries except Japan and the UK tend to only have their media in their countries.

edited 12th Jul '16 12:37:30 PM by Bat178

Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#129782: Jul 12th 2016 at 12:33:04 PM

In the years that we did have non-obscure third party nominees (in the last 30-odd years) did they have seats in the big debates? I want to say Peroit did, not sure about Nader.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#129783: Jul 12th 2016 at 12:33:22 PM

The US didn't intentionally do that though. There isn't some shadowy organization that tries to suppress non-US films.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#129784: Jul 12th 2016 at 12:33:56 PM

[up][up][up]His point was that no one is forcing any outside country to take in media. If your cultural is being "destroyed" by something like that, it sounds to me like it wasn't that strong to begin with.

edited 12th Jul '16 12:34:19 PM by LSBK

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#129785: Jul 12th 2016 at 12:33:58 PM

The Greens still have lots of pseudo science garbage supporters in their ranks. In general they are haven for left wingers who have crazy views that the Democrats don't tolerate.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#129786: Jul 12th 2016 at 12:36:12 PM

@Bat178: Sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of our American films winning all the box office records. [lol]

Perot had a seat at the debate table back in 1992 (and 1996 if I remember correctly). Nader has never to my knowledge gotten a seat. Nor has Stein.

It's at least possible that the Greens could develop a national presence if the GOP implodes and the Democrats move into the center, but there is little risk of that happening at present. The Republicans are losing control of their national party apparatus to their insurgent base, but the apparatus still exists and holds tremendous sway.

The Greens don't seem to be doing that well even in nations where there are proportional and/or parliamentary systems. It's rather naive to try to claim them as the natural inheritors of the disenfranchised left.

edited 12th Jul '16 12:39:18 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#129787: Jul 12th 2016 at 12:36:31 PM

[up][up] The leadership doesn't share those views, and it's been largely thrown out of the platform as of late, at least the last time I checked; presumably they, like many observers are wondering if the GOP is going to survive the next few election cycles, meaning there's an opportunity for a new opposition party to rise. The reason I suggest Green is because, let's face it, none of the other left wing third parties have even the beginnings of a party infrastructure.

edited 12th Jul '16 12:37:34 PM by CaptainCapsase

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#129788: Jul 12th 2016 at 12:39:06 PM

The Greens mostly agree with the Democrats, though, so I don't actually consider them opposition so much as caring about environmental issues a whole lot more. Libertarians genuinely would be opposition, though I very much consider them hog-tied to the Republicans and apparently have no real plan for becoming a party that's not tied so closely to the Republicans. If the Republicans do fall apart, a LOT of them are probably going to re-brand themselves as Libertarians.

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#129789: Jul 12th 2016 at 12:39:16 PM

I seem to remember Stein throwing a tantrum in 08 or 12 when they didn't let her in to debate with the two main candidates.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#129790: Jul 12th 2016 at 12:39:59 PM

[up][up] Throughout most of American history, both parties have been very close to each other, and have had significant progressive and reactionary wings. That changed over the course of the latter half of the 20th century, and now the system is completely bogged down in meaningless partisan bullshit. If the major parties (Greens and Democrats in this scenario) were once again politically close, the system would presumably begin to function again.

edited 12th Jul '16 12:40:41 PM by CaptainCapsase

FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#129791: Jul 12th 2016 at 12:40:41 PM

I dunno about Stein "not mattering". Latest Monmouth poll, which is looking at Johnson and Stein in addition to the big two, show the vote split giving Trump a 2 point win.

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#129792: Jul 12th 2016 at 12:41:28 PM

[up] That doesn't take into account districting, and unless she's insane, she'd tell her supporters to vote for Clinton in swing states; her stated goal is to get enough of the vote for the Greens to get federal funding, and honestly, given how badly Trump's campaign appears to be going for the GOP, the third parties have an opportunity that might never come again.

edited 12th Jul '16 12:42:32 PM by CaptainCapsase

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#129793: Jul 12th 2016 at 12:42:15 PM

[up][up][up] The system functions just fine when one party is not obstructing everything with the obstinacy of a spoiled schoolboy. The Democrats, for all their flaws, are cohesive and tend to get valuable things accomplished when they have unobstructed power. Look at the states with Democratic governments for proof of that.

It is an incredible fallacy to equate the Republicans and Democrats in any meaningful way, and a symptom of the kind of delusional extremism that gives rise to nationalist fringe parties — exactly as is happening in Europe.

Of course, in Europe, the so-called left wing parties have all but capitulated on economic ideology, which means that their voters have ample reason to be angry. Here, not so much, or at least, not yet.

edited 12th Jul '16 12:44:13 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
ILoveDogs Since: May, 2010
#129794: Jul 12th 2016 at 12:42:56 PM

[up][up] She is insane. And she loathes Hillary.

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#129795: Jul 12th 2016 at 12:43:27 PM

[up][up] The federal systems and the state systems are very different from one another. Throughout most of American history, the Overton window at the very top level has been extremely small, and when it's not, things like the current clusterfuck is the result. You saw a similar spike in partisanship after the great depression, and in the leadup to the civil war, and a similar trend of obstructionism that was ended via a devastating internal conflict in the first instance and the executive branch temporarily accumulating near dictatorial power in the second case.

[up] Yes, but is she insane enough to let Trump win, considering what's at stake? If she's getting over the federal funding threshold without swing states, why on God's green Earth would she not ask supporters in swing states to vote Clinton?

edited 12th Jul '16 12:47:02 PM by CaptainCapsase

speedyboris Since: Feb, 2010
#129796: Jul 12th 2016 at 12:43:30 PM

A work friend of mine wanted to vote for Bernie but now that he's out, is probably voting for Jill Stein. He hates Trump and finds Hillary only marginally better.

Obviously one personal anecdote isn't representative of anything, but I do have to wonder how many Bernie or Busters feel the same way.

edited 12th Jul '16 12:43:55 PM by speedyboris

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#129797: Jul 12th 2016 at 12:47:15 PM

Stein isn't one for comprise. She's like a left wing version of Ron Paul.

Her anti military stance and isolationist foreign policy mark her as dangerously naive.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#129798: Jul 12th 2016 at 12:53:28 PM

Everything I've seen about Stein gives me the impression that she views the Democrats as an equal evil to the Republicans. She's unwilling to back Hillary because to her it's the equivalent of supporting an evil party.

ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#129799: Jul 12th 2016 at 12:57:13 PM

[up][up]

As I recall, he was far weaker in '96 because he flip-flopped quite often about whether he was even in the race. Of course, the most notable think about H. Ross Perot that I remember was All That's parody of him.

"Can I finish? Am I an avocado, or can, I, finish?"

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#129800: Jul 12th 2016 at 12:57:42 PM

[up][up] From where I'm standing, she's saying that in order to try and soak up votes; nobody with a decent education could possibly think allowing Trump to get into power is a good idea, and she's outright said the goal is not to take the Presidency but to get enough votes in the election to get federal funding for the party. Considering it's looking very possible that the libertarians will achieve that threshold this cycle, I feel it's imperative to try and match that with a left wing party, and the Greens, for all their numerous flaws are really the only ones who appear to have a chance to pull that off.

edited 12th Jul '16 12:58:23 PM by CaptainCapsase


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