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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

TerminusEst from the Land of Winter and Stars Since: Feb, 2010
#129676: Jul 12th 2016 at 12:30:43 AM

[up]

Strongest economy as well. By far.

Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#129677: Jul 12th 2016 at 5:04:00 AM

[up][up]That presumes there was ever a "greatest country in the world" in the first place.

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#129678: Jul 12th 2016 at 5:32:43 AM

[up] By greatest, people usually mean strongest, and indeed he United States is the strongest empire in the world's history by every metric other than longevity.

TerminusEst from the Land of Winter and Stars Since: Feb, 2010
#129679: Jul 12th 2016 at 5:46:48 AM

[up]

And size.

Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#129680: Jul 12th 2016 at 6:02:56 AM

[up] Yeah, and a few others, but size and population became much less of an edge during the industrial revolution.

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#129681: Jul 12th 2016 at 6:24:41 AM

So it's the strongest empire in the world 's history by every metric except several?

edited 12th Jul '16 6:25:19 AM by sgamer82

megarockman from The Sixth Borough (Experienced Trainee)
#129682: Jul 12th 2016 at 6:25:44 AM

I get the sense it's still more metrics than previous hegemons had held.

The damned queen and the relentless knight.
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#129683: Jul 12th 2016 at 6:27:26 AM

I know. Mostly found it amusing that we're the best there is by any metric... except this one... and this one... oh and these other ones... but we ARE the best!

edited 12th Jul '16 6:27:42 AM by sgamer82

TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#129684: Jul 12th 2016 at 6:30:39 AM

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#129685: Jul 12th 2016 at 7:00:20 AM

@sgamer: By almost every metric would be more appropriate. Ironically, we got there by sitting out World War 2 as long as politically possible, which left the United States as the stronger by far of the two great powers left standing after the war.

The US is strong, but, in many ways it's quite lacking in regards to how it treats its citizens and citizens of other nations. But that's not a metric that directly factors into the power of nations.

edited 12th Jul '16 7:02:08 AM by CaptainCapsase

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#129686: Jul 12th 2016 at 7:03:35 AM

Eh, it was less staying out and more due to having the two biggest oceans in the world between North America and the Axis. The American mainland was never going to be subject to the levels of destruction seen in Asia and Europe.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#129687: Jul 12th 2016 at 7:12:01 AM

WWII America capitalized on nearly 150 years of Hamiltonian development of its industrial base, which, combined with geographical isolation and a wealth of natural resources, allowed us to ramp up our materiél production to levels that Germany and Japan simply could not withstand over time. Based on economic factors alone, our victory was inevitable, and as noted it left us as the sole industrial power that had not seen massive wartime damage to its infrastructure. The Marshall Plan, in turn, guaranteed that the dollar would become the world's reserve currency over the mid-20th century, as most of the post-war reconstruction lending was in dollars. Our global military presence helped to spread our political influence, and our economic power helped to spread our cultural influence.

All of those things helped mask all the internal issues we had yet to address, however, and we're feeling the pain from that now.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#129688: Jul 12th 2016 at 7:15:19 AM

Yeah, we really rode that high for a while and probably set a new world record for kicking the can down the road but it's really biting us in the ass now.

Oh really when?
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#129689: Jul 12th 2016 at 7:32:31 AM

@Rational: Had the US involved itself immediately upon the star of the war, there wouldn't have been nearly as much devastation in the world's traditional power centers, and the world would likely have remained relatively multipolar, with the British Empire and the Soviet Union and perhaps also Japan (if it didn't throw its lot in with the Axis) remaining credible barriers to American hegemony.

Of course, the geographic isolation of the States is one of the big reasons we remained out of the war for so long. As much as we brag about "stopping Hitler", historians more or less agree that the Soviet Union was the biggest contributor to the allied war effort.

edited 12th Jul '16 7:36:13 AM by CaptainCapsase

FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#129690: Jul 12th 2016 at 7:37:48 AM

One should note that metrics of "greatest in history, ever" are relative. Saying one is greater than, say, the Roman Empire, is easy when said empire had no access to airplanes. Technology changes the baseline, and the baseline is always changing. Which is why the sentiment sounds increasingly hollow, and has since the beginning of the millenium.

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#129691: Jul 12th 2016 at 7:41:11 AM

[up] I'm counting the vastly superior technology as part of America's power relative to earlier empires.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#129692: Jul 12th 2016 at 7:48:03 AM

Russia won in part thanks to massive food and materiél aid from the United States, so while it certainly bore the largest share of the Allied casualties, it's not fair to say that it won the war by itself.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#129693: Jul 12th 2016 at 7:48:35 AM

[up]That's the problem with "greatest empire ever": there's always another one along in a few hundred years. Claiming the same, damn thing.

Even China has a conveyer belt of empires claiming to be of a single, continuous line. Honest. Seriously, guys — same deal. Really. Just ignore all the revolts, revolutions and civil wars around incrediblly major shifts in socio-economic politics. Really, honestly... we're at five thousand years and still going strong, here! Of course we are! Greatest empire, ever!

edited 12th Jul '16 7:50:38 AM by Euodiachloris

FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#129694: Jul 12th 2016 at 8:00:41 AM

[up][up][up]You underestimate the capabilities of the rest of the world at your own peril.

TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#129695: Jul 12th 2016 at 8:01:53 AM

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#129696: Jul 12th 2016 at 8:10:32 AM

[up][up] There's no historical mandate for empires to last. If the United States stays a global power, it'll be because we worked to maintain it, not because we sat on our asses. But if some other power does supplant us, well, we'll survive. It might hurt our feelings but we'll get along somehow, as people do.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#129697: Jul 12th 2016 at 8:16:13 AM

Hasn't that always been the consensus? It seems the percentage of "Bernie of Bust" has been going down as things get closer, which isn't surprising.

It's to be expected. In addition to the fact that "Bernie or Bust" was never as large a percentage of the Sanders crowd as some feared, there's also the fact that many of the people who were "Bernie or Bust" were just blowing smoke.

It's easy to talk. Make idle threats, demand your way, etc. It's a narrative that gives a sense of power to disenfranchised folks. "You will accept my candidate, or I will throw this entire country into chaos. It's my way or the highway, baby! I hold the cards! I can damn the world on a whim!"

But when push comes to shove, far fewer people are actually petty enough to hand the nation to a deranged madman out of spite. They might talk it up because - for some reason - people still think that forceful threats will get results, but they don't actually want to pull the trigger. They're just talking out of desperation.

So, naturally, a shrinking population of "Bernie or Bust" supporters is inevitable as we move closer and closer to November. The rage burns itself out, as rage always does, and once they've calmed down, they take a serious look at their candidates and then quietly excuse themselves from the Doom the World Festival.

Another point is that ideas presented with anger attract opposing angry ideas. If you declare that you hate someone and everything they believe, they have no reason to listen to you or do anything but hate you back. As CGP Grey put it, to propose that an idea presented in anger doesn't attract an opposing angry ideal is the same as suggesting that planting more flowers doesn't attract more bees-they live in symbiosis.

Some things are worth being angry about. Some things cannot be compromised.

edited 12th Jul '16 8:16:28 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#129698: Jul 12th 2016 at 8:20:12 AM

"Some things cannot be compromised."

Some examples of this:

  • "Let's just agree to disagree. I'll keep my slaves over here, and you can not keep slaves over there."
  • "You can ban rape in your college, as long as you don't mess with mine."
  • "You don't want me to hang black people, and I want to hang all the black people. So we'll compromise and I'll only hang half of them."

edited 12th Jul '16 8:31:08 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#129699: Jul 12th 2016 at 8:24:26 AM

What about Indentured Servitude, Wage Slavery, and Questionable Consent?

edited 12th Jul '16 8:25:22 AM by TheHandle

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#129700: Jul 12th 2016 at 8:25:33 AM

I consider them unacceptable.

Oh really when?

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