Nov 2023 Mod notice:
There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.
If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations
and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines
before posting here.
Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.
If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules
when posting here.
In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.
Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
![]()
![]()
Sorry about that, it just a bit ago came up as breaking news. It may just be sparse because info's still incoming.
Y'know...
Benghazi was truely smoke and mirrors (considering, even if there was some conspiracy, it'd be on Obama and not her) but this email thing looks less and less manufactured to me.
I mean, I think for the sake of America's future she shouldn't be punished (beyond also the practical implications for other people at State), but she really screwed the pooch on this one, unintentionally or not. I can honestly say if the GOP had someone competant on their side for president right now, I'd vote for them.
Yeah...there's an alternate timeline where Jeb Bush or Rubio is prepared to win a landslide election due to this scandal, but this is not that reality-Trump renders Hillary the lesser evil.
Leviticus 19:34Voting for the Republican candidate to "punish" Hillary for perceived wrongdoing at State is akin to the people who voted Leave in the Brexit referendum as a "protest vote" against what they saw as a corrupt political system. It is hard to imagine a world in which doing so generates any benefits for the voters that are not outweighed by the awful things that their vote leads to.
Look at it rationally: you have an email scandal vs...
- Denying healthcare to millions of Americans.
- Denying LGBT individuals civil rights.
- Slashing funding to social security, welfare, education, in the name of "budget responsibility", whilst cutting taxes by trillions on top income earners.
- Destroying labor laws, workplace safety regulations, etc.
- Ignoring climate change.
- Waging an "eye for an eye" war against terrorists.
- Deporting millions of illegal residents.
The list goes on. By issuing a protest vote, you tell the people in power that you don't mind if they do any of that stuff as long as they don't engage in dodgy security practices. It's worth noting that those policies are not just Trump's; they are the official platform of the GOP.
edited 7th Jul '16 5:24:04 PM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"@Fighteer - Who said anything about a protest vote? I'm merely looking for a competant person. I don't give a damn about the party. Nor Progressive Ideological (or Conservative Ideological) purity.
EDIT- Which is why I'm still voting for her, but damn she makes it hard.
edited 7th Jul '16 5:39:39 PM by FFShinra
Shinra you can look all you want, but the Republican Party platform requires a massive level of incompetence and immorality. Clinton has a minor screw up on her record but she's still feel are better then any Republican candidate, because push come to shove she doesn't belive the dangerous things that Republicans are required to belive.
It's not about ideological purity, it's about being a competent force able to goverment, and the Republican Party as an institution is not that.
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ CyranHence my "I don't care about the party". Once in the White House, the president tends to act differently from the party itself, on either side.
And like I said, I'm voting for her because she is competant. But I'd seriously consider a Kasich or, yes, a Jeb.
I don't presume the candidate, of either party, will focus on much of the party platform once in power...there simply isn't enough time or opportunity for them to do so. So I judge them by the issue they care about most. The rest of the platform, that depends on congress.
I support Hil precisely because she is a foreign policy wonk. Add to the fact that the presidency has the most power over said issue, and I trust her to be able to fulfill it.
All I'm saying is she makes it hard sometimes. And I've said it before, Trump can't win this but she can lose it, and its stupid shit like this that edges percentages against her favor.
Sure but let's look at their policies, Kasich cares about taking the US back to the gold standard (which is economic suicide) and Jeb has much bigger skeletons in his closet then some email server, there's Florida 2000, there his desire to follow in his brother's foreign policy footsteps (as seem by him reusing the same forign policy team).
You can say judge them on their actions and what they care about but in the end one of their actions is joining a party that focuses on hatred and causing economic ruin, their actions include endorsing such a platform and campaigning on it.
Hell is pretty sure they will have both commited to ending the Iran nuclear deal and repealing Obamacare, thosue are their actions and things they care about.
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ CyranThings that make you go hmm: Remember the Ted Cruz adultery scandal and it's convenient timing and that it was noted that Trump and the guy who owns it might be friends? Well I was going through the grocery store checkout on a snack run and they're now parroting "Crooked Hillary" as a front page tagline.
Yeah, 4 out of 5 conservative things I follow are bending over backwards for Trump, which makes things hard. ("Having fetters is how we keep losing!" Is an argument I'm tired of hearing)
I'd take any of the GOP candidates over Hillary, except for Trump-at some point a line has to be drawn.
Leviticus 19:34Yeah-he's at the edge of what I'll support but I'd vote for him if got the nomination.
Leviticus 19:34![]()
Eh, sure.
I'd honestly take Trump over any GOP candidate. At least Trump can screw the GOP for a few terms.
edited 7th Jul '16 7:17:32 PM by flameboy21th
Non Indicative Username
