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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Bense Since: Aug, 2010
#128826: Jul 5th 2016 at 10:02:01 AM

When someone believes the laws don't apply to him or her I don't think he or she should become the person in charge of enforcing the law.

I work for a bank. If I ignore the rules and send e-mail with customer information from my private e-mail server, I get fired when the bank finds out. It doesn't matter if the bank's e-mail system is clunky and more difficult to use than my private e-mail. Since I signed an agreement saying I would follow the rules, the bank would be perfectly justified in firing me.

edited 5th Jul '16 10:05:42 AM by Bense

Deadbeatloser22 from Disappeared by Space Magic (Great Old One) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
#128827: Jul 5th 2016 at 10:03:22 AM

Someone should probably tell Trump that then.

edited 5th Jul '16 10:03:30 AM by Deadbeatloser22

"Yup. That tasted purple."
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#128828: Jul 5th 2016 at 10:03:24 AM

You did, but I have a suspicion it would've gone the other way if the GOP had a competitive candidate.

I assume that it's worthless for me to try and convince you that maybe the FBI director could simply be a commited public servant who genuinely doesn't think this is worth pursuing? Instead of being someone who sees a situation like this simply as a way to advance their own political career regardless of morality or legality.

If they all did it, then why can't we investigate and prosecute the last several Secretaries of State for the same crimes?

We could but it's been judged that it's not worth the effort, you'd have to jail half the state department if you did that. This level of leakage just kinda happens, some people need a kick up the butt but that's it.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#128829: Jul 5th 2016 at 10:03:34 AM

[up][up][up] The law has not, and never will apply to people in positions of power, unfortunately. What matters in those circumstances is not whether you are guilty or innocent, but who your political allies are and what positions they hold.

edited 5th Jul '16 10:03:55 AM by CaptainCapsase

smokeycut Since: Mar, 2013
#128830: Jul 5th 2016 at 10:03:50 AM

If a law exists without reason, it deserves to be broken. She was being safer and more efficient, which is what we need. Playing by the rules was worse in that situation.

Deadbeatloser22 from Disappeared by Space Magic (Great Old One) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
#128831: Jul 5th 2016 at 10:04:45 AM

Also after all the Benghazi crap is anyone really surprised?

"Yup. That tasted purple."
Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
#128832: Jul 5th 2016 at 10:04:56 AM

Keep in mind, Clinton was not the first Secretary of State to do this. Several earlier ones did this too. If Clinton can be indicted for this, so can all of them. Either she doesn't get in trouble, just like her predecessors, or all of them get arrested and charged.

PhiSat Planeswalker from Everywhere and Nowhere Since: Jan, 2011
Planeswalker
#128833: Jul 5th 2016 at 10:05:39 AM

There's also Bill Clinton having talks with the ADA on the case. Even if it was irrelevant it was an astoundingly stupid decision from a PR perspective, it makes it look like he was trying to influence her. (Not saying that was going on, but it looks bad and that's what's important)

Oissu!
Bense Since: Aug, 2010
#128834: Jul 5th 2016 at 10:07:32 AM

Someone should probably tell Trump that [that if you don't believe the rules apply to you then you shouldn't be in charge of applying the rules] then.
Yes. Absolutely. Someone please tell Mr. Trump that.

If a law exists without reason, it deserves to be broken.
Wrong. It deserves to be repealed, not willingly broken. And especially not by those who want to be in charge of applying and enforcing the law. Those people, more than anyone else, have to be willing to work within the system.

edited 5th Jul '16 10:15:20 AM by Bense

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#128835: Jul 5th 2016 at 10:09:14 AM

Bill Clinton has a habit of having talks with people he shouldn't and turning up at places he shouldn't. I think he genuinely just likes to chat with people and put his side across, but he seems to forget that he's a former president and that him just dropping by to chat is a big thing with repucutions.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
smokeycut Since: Mar, 2013
#128836: Jul 5th 2016 at 10:15:25 AM

If Hillary should be in jail for using that server, then it was right of police to throw black people in prison back in the 60s for trying to eat at white only restaurants (this isn't necessarily the exact same situation, but it's the first one that came to mind when it comes to breaking the law for a good reason). There are laws that, if followed, have horrible consequences. Hillary needed a better server to conduct government business, and shouldn't be thrown in jail for doing it.

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#128837: Jul 5th 2016 at 10:16:34 AM

[up][up] I sincerely doubt that someone who held such a high office would make that sort of gaffe, certainly not on a regular basis.

[up] I'd put these laws more in the category in the many laws and customs of warfare that the US decided did not apply to it over the years, and which in the present day merely exist as a tool to give the US the appearance of having the moral high ground when it denounces war crimes that it has been guilty of itself in the recent past or that it supported up until the point when the perpetrator started acting independently from Washington. Something that really should be enforced, but isn't, and probably won't be for the foreseeable future.

edited 5th Jul '16 10:20:14 AM by CaptainCapsase

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#128838: Jul 5th 2016 at 10:17:41 AM

[up][up]Well, in a sense, the police "were" right- like in those circumstances, the point of the civil disobedience was to be arrested/imprisoned to bring attention to bad laws.

This situation is more like driving over the speed limit in situations where it is the norm and thus actually safer than obeying the limit.

edited 5th Jul '16 10:17:58 AM by Hodor2

PotatoesRock Since: Oct, 2012
#128839: Jul 5th 2016 at 10:19:52 AM

It's a combination of things:

You're supposed to have all E-Mails like her's for government business done on government systems for security reasons and for preservation of documentation for government records.

You're supposed to only use basically NSA vetted/secured systems to avoid the Chinese and Russians and other political antagonists from gaining access to sensitive information.

You're not supposed to delete E-Mails (which she and her staff did), because again, you're supposed to keep E-Mails for public record and security reasons.

Part of the problem however is the State and the NSA and most of the other Alphabet departments are comically underfunded and insist on years to decades old technology because of under-funding from Congress because lol starve the beast

Like Hillary or Obama wanted also a Smartphone but the NSA kept on insisting on him and her using an out of date Blackberry.

edited 5th Jul '16 10:20:32 AM by PotatoesRock

Bense Since: Aug, 2010
#128840: Jul 5th 2016 at 10:20:02 AM

Sec. Clinton was not attempting to draw attention to a bad law.

smokeycut Since: Mar, 2013
#128841: Jul 5th 2016 at 10:21:40 AM

She was breaking the law for a good reason, which, as I explicitly stated, was why I drew that comparison.

Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#128842: Jul 5th 2016 at 10:22:29 AM

If the police enforce a bad law, in all but the most extreme cases the police aren't in the wrong per say. What's actually wrong is that the bad law exists in the first place-it's the fault of law makers, not law enforcement. We do not want police officers disregarding laws in favor of doing what their gut tells them is right.

Leviticus 19:34
FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#128843: Jul 5th 2016 at 10:23:01 AM

Why was it safer for her to disobey? What was "unsafe" about the actual system. I'm not in favor of witch hunts, but I suspect serious whitewashing of the issue here now on this thread.

EDIT- Partial Answer [nja]

edited 5th Jul '16 10:24:39 AM by FFShinra

desdendelle Hooded Crow from Land of Milk and Honey (Sergeant) Relationship Status: Hiding
Hooded Crow
#128844: Jul 5th 2016 at 10:25:06 AM

Political witch hunts aside: mishandling of classified information should at the very least be investigated. If the police (or FBI, or whoever's supposed to investigate) found no wrongdoing, then the case should be dropped. If there was wrongdoing, then it should go to trial.

On empty crossroads, seek the eclipse -- for when Sol and Lua align, the lost shall find their way home.
smokeycut Since: Mar, 2013
#128845: Jul 5th 2016 at 10:26:11 AM

The servers they had set up and said were safe were old and outdated, meaning they're less secure, and less efficient. By using her own private server, she was being safer (which, as Secretary of State, is her job), even if it went against what she was supposed to do.

Bense Since: Aug, 2010
#128846: Jul 5th 2016 at 10:27:24 AM

We do not want police officers disregarding laws in favor of doing what their gut tells them is right.
Or doing it for convenience, which is what Sec. Clinton said was her motive.

PhiSat Planeswalker from Everywhere and Nowhere Since: Jan, 2011
Planeswalker
#128847: Jul 5th 2016 at 10:28:11 AM

It was still pretty dumb of her to be deleting e-mails when she should know they needed to be kept for public record. But then is this whole scandal malicious or just the product of stupidity? Who knows.

Oissu!
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#128848: Jul 5th 2016 at 10:30:14 AM

[up]I guarantee you she isn't the only secretary or director doing that sort of thing.

edited 5th Jul '16 10:30:33 AM by Kostya

Bense Since: Aug, 2010
#128849: Jul 5th 2016 at 10:30:26 AM

The servers they had set up and said were safe were old and outdated, meaning they're less secure, and less efficient. By using her own private server, she was being safer (which, as Secretary of State, is her job), even if it went against what she was supposed to do.
That presumes the state department servers were in fact less secure. Were they?

Also, this isn't an argument Sec. Clinton herself or her lawyers has ever made. Why not?

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#128850: Jul 5th 2016 at 10:31:17 AM

It's also illegal for me to use an avatar from a copyrighted work that I do not have permission to use. Are you going to insist that law be enforced, too?


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