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flameboy21th The would-be novelist from California Since: Jan, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
The would-be novelist
#128501: Jul 2nd 2016 at 3:19:27 PM

My problem with Sanders is that he is too much of a Ned Stark.

Non Indicative Username
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#128502: Jul 2nd 2016 at 3:20:15 PM

[up][up]Basic competency is number one for me.

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#128503: Jul 2nd 2016 at 3:22:16 PM

@Aces: You do realize he had a significant platform beyond his economic platform, which went as far or further than Clinton's proposals, and which he talked about at length at several points in time? Believe it or not, there's more to candidates than just soundbites. Even Trump.

If Sanders was a single issues candidate (going off of soundbites), Clinton was a no-issues candidate.

edited 2nd Jul '16 3:33:18 PM by CaptainCapsase

tricksterson Never Trust from Behind you with an icepick Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Never Trust
#128504: Jul 2nd 2016 at 3:22:29 PM

[up][up][up]More aggressive than who and in what way? Depending on the circumstances that's not necessarily a negative characteristic.

Trump delenda est
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#128505: Jul 2nd 2016 at 3:23:21 PM

[up] Every other candidate was an imperialist for one (and the Clintons for their part have strong ties to one of the worst American war criminals and one of the biggest Karma Houdinis in history), though that's pretty much unavoidable; given the state of America's military institutions; if the President isn't signing off on aggression, intelligence agencies and the military will go ahead and do it anyway, the crowning of example of which was Carter.

edited 2nd Jul '16 3:28:49 PM by CaptainCapsase

Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#128506: Jul 2nd 2016 at 3:24:47 PM

@94013: His ego has little to do with whether his policies are correct or not-it's just that, as others point out, he's had a bit too much of his own kool-aid-even if we assume his policies are right.

Personally, not a big fan of socialism, because I think its attempts to help others in need comes at a cost too high-I think it erodes the value of the individual and creates a less meritocratic society in the name of the Greater Good. Communism is what happens when socialism is taken to the logical extreme, though I will admit they are not the same thing. (Communism is when you make this trade-off all the time rather than most of the time)

edited 2nd Jul '16 3:28:39 PM by Protagonist506

Leviticus 19:34
940131 Since: Feb, 2014
#128507: Jul 2nd 2016 at 3:26:51 PM

@Aces 1) I wasn't the one who brought up the ego of candidates. Hilary supporters did.

2) It sounds like you're reaching to discredit Sanders. If you want to see real dirty politics wait for Trump. He'll bring out Hillary dragging Monica Lewinsky through the mud, super predators, her hypocrisy in regards to Netenyahu, her stance against gay marriage, her support for the Iraq war and so many other things. He'll say anything to win. Sanders was to nice to go there. Trump isn't.

@protagonist And crony capitalism taken to it's logical extreme is facism. The marriage of corporations and the state. If you dislike socialism, that's fine. I disagree with you. I think free education, Universal Health Care and social security are very good things and that the rich should pay higher taxes than the poor.

edited 2nd Jul '16 3:45:22 PM by 940131

ILoveDogs Since: May, 2010
#128508: Jul 2nd 2016 at 3:30:02 PM

Christ, I opened a can of worms, didn't I?

My problem with his policy is that he thought that breaking up the banks, taxing the rich, etc. would somehow fix racial inequality.

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#128509: Jul 2nd 2016 at 3:31:03 PM

[up][up][up] What you call communism is actually Marxist-Leninism, the political ideology followed by the Soviet Union and Maoist China. Communism is the hypothetical endpoint of social evolution towards increasing pluralism.

[up] He didn't though? Criminal justice reforms and drug law reforms were also a big part of his platform, and he spent ample time focusing on it, not that the soundbites would reflect that. That's something that would be immensely helpful for minorities. Moreover, improving economic mobility (via expanding the welfare system, which is what raising effective taxes on the wealthy and on corporations was intended for) is something that would improve racial equality tremendously; extremely unequal distribution of wealth among demographics is perhaps the biggest form of racial inequality in modern day America, competing with the biased criminal justice system for the biggest issue facing African and Hispanic Americans.

edited 2nd Jul '16 3:39:46 PM by CaptainCapsase

Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#128510: Jul 2nd 2016 at 3:45:02 PM

[up][up][up]I'm not really in favor of Crony Capitalism for the same reasons I dislike Socialism (marriage of business and state infringing on meritocracy), but I will admit that the type of free-market individualist capitalism I do support could cause problems if you go to far with it (Rapture from Bioshock would be a good example of how this sort of thing could go extremely wrong).

Leviticus 19:34
940131 Since: Feb, 2014
#128511: Jul 2nd 2016 at 3:46:34 PM

@protagonist Hillary is in favor of crony capitalism. Most of the candidates are. It's probably why Trump and Sanders picked up so much support.

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#128512: Jul 2nd 2016 at 3:47:04 PM

[up]What makes you say that she's in favor of crony capitalism?

edited 2nd Jul '16 3:47:22 PM by LeGarcon

Oh really when?
ILoveDogs Since: May, 2010
#128513: Jul 2nd 2016 at 3:50:24 PM

[up][up] And what makes you think that Trump isn't?

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#128514: Jul 2nd 2016 at 3:51:55 PM

And with Trump as the alternative does it actually matter?

smokeycut Since: Mar, 2013
940131 Since: Feb, 2014
#128516: Jul 2nd 2016 at 3:55:07 PM

@Le Garcon Do you really think she took that money from Wall Street to change the system?

@I Love Dogs The reason Hillary is being backed by major corporations is because she'll protect their interests. They're not sure Trump would.

edited 2nd Jul '16 3:56:34 PM by 940131

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#128517: Jul 2nd 2016 at 3:56:21 PM

She hasn't listened to them so far.

Oh really when?
ILoveDogs Since: May, 2010
#128518: Jul 2nd 2016 at 3:56:28 PM

Name one incident where her voting record was affected by Wall Street donations.

940131 Since: Feb, 2014
#128519: Jul 2nd 2016 at 3:57:59 PM

@Le Garcon You're dodging the question. Do you really think she took millions in "donations" (bribes) to change the system?

@Smokeycut It's nice to see she's found the time to support the LGBTQ community when it becam politically convenient to her. That ones a true Machiavel.

edited 2nd Jul '16 3:59:26 PM by 940131

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#128520: Jul 2nd 2016 at 3:59:02 PM

When his major thing was economics, and that's what he talks about most, then he tends to come off as single issue. Yes, I'm fucking aware he had a more extensive platform, but economics is his main thing.

@9; I'm beginning to think you just came awareness of the whole situation, because I listed off things we've discussed before in the thread. Except maybe the waffling about his tax returns, but that's been in the news too. You're listing literally all the things we've discussed here before and refuted. Including the whole Wall Street donations things. She and Sanders voted the same way like ninety percent of the time, so if she's corrupted by Wall Street it's likely Sanders is too. Also, it's kind of hard to avoid Wall Street when YOU REPRESENT NEW YORK.

[up]I think it's pretty clear that none of us believe that bullcrap because no one's been able to prove it.

edited 2nd Jul '16 3:59:32 PM by AceofSpades

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#128521: Jul 2nd 2016 at 3:59:33 PM

[up][up]I've seen nothing to suggest otherwise in her campaign so far and her history indicates that she's never been beholden to Wall Street interests before.

edited 2nd Jul '16 4:00:00 PM by LeGarcon

Oh really when?
Superdark33 The dark Mage of the playground from Playgrounds and Adventures Since: Jan, 2013 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
The dark Mage of the playground
#128522: Jul 2nd 2016 at 3:59:59 PM

Imo clinton isnt great because she has the mindset that the middle east should stay in perpetual war and was smiling and yelling "DEMOCRACY!" as the egyptians elected a theocratic terror group to presidency and burnt american flags. Then she was displeased when the second military coup happened.

Shes nothing special.

940131 Since: Feb, 2014
#128523: Jul 2nd 2016 at 4:00:44 PM

@Aces I'm going to ask you what I asked Le Garcon, do you really think she took bribes to change the system?

@Le Garcon You're not answering the question. Do you really think she took bribes to change the system.

edited 2nd Jul '16 4:04:54 PM by 940131

ILoveDogs Since: May, 2010
#128524: Jul 2nd 2016 at 4:01:53 PM

And I'm going to ask again: name one instance where her voting record was influenced by Wall Street donations.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#128525: Jul 2nd 2016 at 4:02:03 PM

If Hillary is beholden to Wall Street then Sanders is beholden to the NRA. Next question?


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