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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
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If he's not open, he's extremely unsubtle.
Being honest, I think we've reached the point where the person is more important their their issues and voting records. Now that we're down to one Republican and one Democrat, their stances on any issues are pretty much a secondary concern, if not irrelevant, given how polar opposite your typical Democrat and Republican can be and how intractable most people are in their party allegiance and leanings. Now it really does boil down to who you'd prefer sitting in the oval office.
edited 2nd Jul '16 2:41:57 PM by sgamer82
x2 1) Me? I don't think Trump would be a good President and I don't think he's a good person. I'll admit some of his antics were funny (giving out Lindsay Grahams phone number, silencing Jeb Bush etc.), but I think he's a bigoted, bully and a narcissist with fascist tendencies. If I was American, I'd have thrown all my support behind Bernie Sanders.
2) He's a lot cleaner than Hilary. I said a while ago, that Huffington Post was biased against Trump. But it's not just a liberal bias, but an establishment bias. Bernie Sanders took a beating too.
@sgamers I have to disagree. I don't think Trump is a white supremacist.
edited 2nd Jul '16 2:48:39 PM by 940131
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Question: now that Sanders is effectively out of the race, would you, if American, vote for Clinton, Trump, a Third Party candidate with zero chance at victory, or not at all?
Note that, regardless of answer, I will not make the claim that not voting or voting hopelessly third party is effectively the same as voting for Trump. People have made their case on that but, as a matter of principle, I don't buy into it unless you intended to vote for one then changed your mind. I've also had that argument and don't feel like delving into it again.
edited 2nd Jul '16 2:50:11 PM by sgamer82
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I don't know if that was in question, so much as how open he was about it. Not to me, at least.
I think
was speaking more generally than just you. We've had people tear into Clinton over her various scandals before, especially when Sanders was the rising star.
edited 2nd Jul '16 2:52:36 PM by sgamer82
Hilary has a better temperment than Trump. I wouldn't call her a maniac. It's Trump and Hilary now. To me it looks like the Americans people have to choose now between a giant douche and a turd sandwhich.
Sanders being a slight egotist makes sense to me (though, I'll acknowledge bias-I'm more than a little anti-socialist). Basically, he's a hipster of sorts-his politics are rather divergent from most of the US government. He can run around claiming that he's the "last honest man/hero of the common folk in politics". In addition, he's had major success against other mainstream candidates such as Hillary.
Essentially, he's put himself in an environment where he's encouraged to think of himself as the only one who isn't "The Man" or "The Man sticking it to The Man", that "the system" is stacked against him, and that anyone who disagrees with him doesn't understand where their self-interests lie or has been bought by someone else. All of these things are going to contribute to a larger-than-average ego.
He's still more humble than Trump, though.
Leviticus 19:34![]()
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True as it may be, at least the turd sandwich (assuming Donald Trump can be anything but a giant douche), promises to at least be competent at the job. That's been my major point in leaning towards Clinton from the start. She was far more reliably competent than anyone on the Republican side of the aisle. I would've been fine with Sanders either way, and liked him from an idealistic standpoint, but not at the expense of voting Clinton if he didn't get the nomination.
edited 2nd Jul '16 3:00:18 PM by sgamer82
@Protagonist 506 I still don't see the ego. He was fighting against the man and mainstream news supports it. He was the anti establishment candidate. Fascism, Communism and now terrorism... these words have been used so much that they lost their meaning. Because of the Soviet Union, socialism is considered a bad thing, but it really isn't. It's about helping people who are struggling. One of the more remarkable things to me was in the republican debate where Trump was attacked by Cruz and Marco for saying that socialized Health Care worked in other countries and that as President he wouldn't let people die in the street. He was attacked for one of the few decent things he said on his campaign.
Would Hilary be competent? Probably. Would Trump be incompetent? With a strong and experienced running mate I don't think it's absolutely clear that he'd be a failure.
edited 2nd Jul '16 3:06:58 PM by 940131
The impression I got is that the ego seemed to creep in as he got more popular, a kind of Acquired Situational Narcissism. That resulted in him taking losses and attacks on him more personally than he should.
I don't remember strictly since I remember the sudden dislike of Sanders that kicked in following the "chair throwing" incident struck me as a very sudden swerve. apparently it was in large part a reaction to Sanders statement after the fact, which many took less as an apology and/or denouncement of the act and more a "Yeah it was bad but it wouldn't have happened if..."
edited 2nd Jul '16 3:08:27 PM by sgamer82
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"Ego" might not have been the right word, but I got the feeling that he thought that he and only he could save America, as time went on. I do think he drunk too much of his own Kool-Aid.
Even disregarding that, however, I think that Clinton is much more sound in her policy and experienced in her politics.
There was quite a bit of wearing down leading up to the chair throwing thing. His constant harping on about how he was the only honest candidate, his obsession with a "revolution", and his supporters started to make me dislike him. By the time the primary came, I was considering voting for Hillary instead, and after he failed to actually condemn the chair throwing, I wished I had voted for her.
"The man" is also a term that's lost all meaning, considering that everyone in the race is trying to get into the office of "The man". It's also outdated and weird to see. Also, that transcript bullshit you brought up last page? No one cares; she made some paid speeches to some guys and was paid for it. For whatever reason she apparently doesn't own the transcript. And most people don't consider speech transcripts to be scandalous. It's a non-issue.
Anyway, we've already gone over several times how Bernie isn't exactly "clean" whatever that's supposed to mean. He's flat out engaged in NIMB Yism, refused to listen to people of a town who his decisions would have directly affected, is a nearly single issue economy wonk who doesn't understand how other factors can play into inequality, and had some shady stuff going on with his tax returns.
Benghazi was not, in fact, Clinton's fault, nor has she been found to have engaged in wrong doing during that event. The e-mail thing is a manufactured scandal on the part of the Republicans. Her doing speeches for Wall Street or whatever after she was Secretary isn't that big a damn deal. She's not a massively corrupt boogeyman of any sort.
Edit: The chair throwing thing was proven to be a hoax, wasn't it? Tweeted by some reporter or other who had left prior to any incident.
edited 2nd Jul '16 3:11:40 PM by AceofSpades
Clintons more agressive too. I saw more ego from Cruz, Trump and Clinton than I saw from Sanders.
If you guys are talking about what I think you're talking about, I saw the video. A guy lifted a chair and put it right back down. Big deal. If you're lookin for real political violence go to a Trump rally.
edited 2nd Jul '16 3:15:00 PM by 940131
"More aggressive" is such a bland description as to be useless for the discussion here. And politicians have some ego, so fucking what? That tends to be what happens when you manage to gain high position. If we're going to shit on people for being proud of themselves we might as well condemn anyone who has the slightest bit of ambition.
Aggressiveness isn't the problem. The problem is that between Hillary and Trump, only one of them hates mexicans and has a history of racism towards black people. Only one of them is a well known misogynist. Only one of them wants to stop all muslims from entering the country (flying in the face of their right to freedom of religion).
There's a million and one different reasons why Hillary is better than Trump. I can list them all day.

Honestly, hearing about how obviously squeaky clean, and honest, and compassionate Sanders is got old awhile ago.
edited 2nd Jul '16 2:44:56 PM by LSBK