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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
Republicans enjoy too much influence currently with Texas in the US to even let said secessionists gain traction, despite some idiots (Like Perry) playing into the fear of the US "invading" its own territory.
In any case, secessionists in the US tend to be nowhere near sympathetic, since said secessionists are nearly always lined up with racists, right wingers, and tend to be like those guys who took over a wildlife refuge building a few months ago. Giving them the legal option would fuel the fire of bigotry, in this case, and so is far more trouble than it's worth.
@Tactical Fox: Well, that's an issue tangential to statehood; Congress tends to hobble city efforts to do such things as I understand it.
@Handle: The Supreme Court...kinda did in Texas v. White? Quote majority opinion, written by Chief Justice Salmon Chase: "The union between Texas and the other States was as complete, as perpetual, and as indissoluble as the union between the original States (the original 13 under the Articles of Confederation). There was no place for reconsideration or revocation, except through revolution or through consent of the States."
The damned queen and the relentless knight.I dislike succession for another reason: it always brings out a bunch of "progressive" assholes talking about "let's through out the garbage" or "I'm tired of carrying them" as if Texas or whatever is some monolithic blob of right-wing stereotypes.
That happens with things besides just leaving the country but especially with leaving the country, and especially with Texas.
To be fair, there's some amount of a similar sentiment in the EU about Brexit, given how begrudging UK membership has been, especially if it ends up involving only England and Wales, and Scotland and North Ireland rejoin immediately.
edited 28th Jun '16 10:22:01 AM by TheHandle
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.![]()
Northern Ireland.
It is quite possible that an independent Scotland might receive no special treatment, and have go through the EU application process from scratch like any other new applicant.
And even then, Scotland's entry might get blocked, or it might not meet the requirements (or the EU might collapse by then).
edited 28th Jun '16 10:31:11 AM by Greenmantle
Keep Rolling OnIn other words, the brand of nationalism that demonises foreigners and blames them for all the woes within a country lead to terrible people gaining power and doing terrible things.
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It doesn't make sense to me that they've "lost that right" forever and ever.
And there are plenty of other means to abolish slavery in a country other than permanent annexation, with or without draconic help.
Even with annexed countries, you can let them go after abolition and it almost always stays abolished.
edited 28th Jun '16 11:41:22 AM by TheHandle
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.The original States were never independent nations that were annexed. They joined a mutual union. So did all the others. Texas does not earn special pleading rights.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"![]()
That strikes me as unfair as well.
Not that I image a free Texas would be a very good place for most people, especially of the not-white persuasion, but in a hypothetical situation where it would be, it seems unfair to restrict that over something that happened almost 200 years ago.
edited 28th Jun '16 11:42:59 AM by LSBK
Yeah, while the circumstances under which modern Texans want to secede are absolutely illegitimate, as they were then, that doesn't mean that it's OK to believe they should have to forfeit additional rights as punishment, and that in the unlikely chance that things change in the future to the point that they want to secede for legitimate purposes it should be barred to them forever and ever.
The idea of singling out political entities for eternal punishment over their past actions, or policies of retribution in general, strikes me as unfair from a perspective of pure principle, and is the kind of that often breeds resentful nationalist sentiments in the first place. If anything it'll only make them want to stick to their guns out of a sense of self-martyrdom.
edited 28th Jun '16 11:50:52 AM by AlleyOop
We are not punishing the South for the Civil War by forcing them to remain part of the United States; they were always a part. The secession that led to the war was illegal on its face, never mind that it was based on false moral pretenses. (Did anyone ask the slaves about self-determination? I don't think so.)
edited 28th Jun '16 11:49:09 AM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"I dunno about the annexation thing; I've always heard Texas finally joining the US after nine years referring as annexation, since Texas was basically its own country for nine years rather than a territory. It was still a dick move to secede over the slavery issue.
Also, that's nice Handle, but peaceful abolition of slavery doesn't really reflect US's situation as it was then or now.
The problem with secession in the US is it's always a small group trying to force their self determination on everyone else, thinking somehow they can convince everyone it's a great idea.
edited 28th Jun '16 11:55:58 AM by AceofSpades
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We're talking about provisions for secession in the modern day, though. Presumably suffrage would be universal. Of course, there's the issue of contemporary vote supression.
Let's not Appeal to Force.
edited 28th Jun '16 11:57:11 AM by TheHandle
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.![]()
The Supreme Court already ruled against Texas having any special right of secession. If the UNCHR wants to fight us over it, they are welcome to send some monitors over.
edited 28th Jun '16 11:56:20 AM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"As Fighteer says, secession was illegal long before the civil war started. In fact, if it wasn't, the civil war wouldn't have happened and the confederate states would have been allowed to do what they did.
Leviticus 19:34I just find the whole idea that one can have one's "self-determination" violated by a federal system that enforces anti-discrimination laws to be absurd. So you want to withdraw from the Union because you can't ban abortions or keep transgender people out of your public restrooms or shoot Mexicans? Is there a variation of First-World Problems for racists and bigots? "KKK problems, amirite? I know, man."
edited 28th Jun '16 12:23:06 PM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

I'd like the idea of DC statehood, but the whole district needs to be completely renovated and brought up to speed.
There are certain parts of the city that make you stare in disbelief. "THIS is the fucking capital of the most powerful nation on Earth? Seriously?!
New Survey coming this weekend!