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JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#127901: Jun 27th 2016 at 5:00:31 PM

[up] The Simpsons and Futureama maybe, but South Park is rightwing,though it does take shots at it's own side and is certainly not in keeping with the "family values" attitude of the right. And Family Guy is just Family Guy.

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#127902: Jun 27th 2016 at 5:03:21 PM

You'll notice that most people complain about how all of those shows (except for maybe South Park) later seasons are terrible. I don't really agree with that but it's definitely a common sentiment.

And even South Park was really stagnate for awhile.

[up]I wouldn't call South Park right or left wing. They've admitted they like making fun of liberals more but it's not like they have any deep love for "conservative" values or politicians. The other three are pretty openly left-wing in their politics, though.

edited 27th Jun '16 5:05:05 PM by LSBK

TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#127903: Jun 27th 2016 at 5:10:39 PM

[up]What about reality shows like Here Comes Honey Boo Boo? Or Pro Wrestling? Or your usual daytime soap?

Because, you see, I'm young, and I'm restless. I only got One Life to Live! So I've got to follow my guiding light and Search for Tomorrow! Hey, who knows if I'll wind up living out the days of my life in a mansion in Dallas, or on the corner of Melrose Place drinking Falcon Crests out of a brown paper bag!

I guess I'm reaching a bit, but I couldn't help but seize the opportunity to quote that golden monologue...

ou say selfish I say entrepreneurial. You say stupid I say fuck off. That's the American way. And that's what made us the largest economic and Military power on the planet, that and everyone else deciding to blow themselves up in the first half of the 20th century.

Is this your actual sentiment, Jack, or are you just parodying? I honestly can't tell, and I can't address your comment properly before I'm sure.

edited 27th Jun '16 5:14:55 PM by TheHandle

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#127904: Jun 27th 2016 at 5:13:07 PM

[up]The thing with reality TV shows like Honey Boo Boo is that they're the modern day equivalent of Freak Shows. The people they make fun of are not their core audience.

It's very hard to pin where Jack stands on a lot of issues, however he claims to be dead serious. He seems to keep changing between various viewpoints that are mildly extreme (such as claiming he hates individual creativity and individualism and that America is "the garbage pit of the Earth" to becoming very strongly patriotic.

edited 27th Jun '16 5:16:00 PM by Protagonist506

Leviticus 19:34
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#127905: Jun 27th 2016 at 5:16:20 PM

From reading the page, the attitude of fans to the show doesn't seem to be one of contempt...

As for the other thing... I think I'm getting a grasp of the type of character. I can't say I haven't met those before.

edited 27th Jun '16 5:18:08 PM by TheHandle

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#127906: Jun 27th 2016 at 5:18:35 PM

In the case of Pro-Wrestling, I think a big part of the appeal is Narm Charm. At least, of what Wrestling I've seen the enjoyment was partially how silly and Crazy Awesome it all was.

In the case of HBB, it does say on the page that there's Bile Fascination involved in its enjoyment, and also that people tend to Love It or Hate It.

On a side note, I think we're getting off-topic and should go to the Culture thread.

edited 27th Jun '16 5:22:00 PM by Protagonist506

Leviticus 19:34
Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#127907: Jun 27th 2016 at 5:24:14 PM

Americans tend to laugh at and love the Eagleland stereotype (even, in many cases, the "America, Fuck You!" brand). The whole idea of America as a Boisterous Bruiser really is something we embrace, along with strong trends of Anti-Intellectualism and rebelliousness. As David Brin once so astutely noted, American media are where the idea of rebels as heroes, simply because they're the rebels, really kicked off.

So yeah, I think Handle has a point. We embrace a certain degree of stupidity in our culture, though I think that even more so, we flat out hate being told what to do or that someone else knows better than us. Who needs economists and climate scientists with their big fancy degrees? We got our Simple-Minded Wisdom and gumption and that'll be enough to make us all rich!

edited 27th Jun '16 5:24:27 PM by Ramidel

TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#127908: Jun 27th 2016 at 5:24:33 PM

[up][up]But that's it, isn't it? Macho Masochism, Testosterone Poisoning, and a deliberate intent to be silly while doing it. Things like the Heart Attack Grill and Epic Meal Time. Monster trucks and Nascar. Buying way more guns than you could possibly need. Characters like House or The Mentalist or Lucifer or the entirety of Rick And Morty being deliberately manufactured to capitalize on the love of the Loveable Jerk. There's a pain and a guilt and an insecurity and a shame and a Refuge in Audacity, an escape forward.

[up]In that case, you're not that different from the English, from what I've seen recently. Except the English tend to phrase it in the form of resentful meekness rather than brash bravado. Most of the time.

edited 27th Jun '16 5:26:36 PM by TheHandle

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#127909: Jun 27th 2016 at 5:25:43 PM

Well, first off, someone else calling you an idiot is different from your own group saying it. Second, most of the shows you listed aren't specifically about glorying in our own stupidity; those shows are, in fact, frequently satire and commentary on American social issues. Whether or not they're good satire is another discussion best suited for a different thread, but they are in fact about mocking elements of our own culture, with The Simpsons specifically being made to mock the whole father knows best that was common in American TV when the show started.

Basically, none of those shows are specifically calling Americans idiots. They're making jokes out of common American problems. You have really misinterpreted what the creators are going for in those shows. (And frankly I think Family Guy is increasingly mean spirited while offering nothing of value, and South Park has no concept of scale in the things they lampoon. Still, though, the jokes are still more than "Americans are idiots let's glorify that.")

Also, delving into the media any country is going to reveal some stupid, manipulative shit. I think America just stands out because we import so damn much of our media.

edited 27th Jun '16 5:27:14 PM by AceofSpades

AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#127910: Jun 27th 2016 at 5:28:59 PM

If you're going to judge America's taste for characters I guess How I met Your Mother and Friends would be a better representative.

A mix of white and blue collar friends with varying degrees of education trying to hold on to the sweet moments of their youth as adults and enjoy their early adulthood before the burden of responsibility that comes with building their own family and career weights down on them.

Anyway most American shows usually revolve around a semi dysfunctional family that despise all their troubles still sticks together out of affection and love, like Malcon in The Middle, Arrested Development and Grounded For Life or a group of friends where each has a different perk and personality but all manage to get along very well with each other because they have a long story attached to them, like Friends, Scrubs, Seinfeld and How I met your mother. That is if you don't add both to the story like That 70's Show.

Inter arma enim silent leges
JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#127911: Jun 27th 2016 at 5:29:29 PM

@Handle: It's the national sentiment, or a blunt version of it, not mine. I am way to shy to say or do anything like that.

@Protaganist: Blame my inconsistency on youth, not taking my meds and getting pissed off, and just reading an article that got me pissed or depressed or something.

edited 27th Jun '16 5:31:20 PM by JackOLantern1337

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#127912: Jun 27th 2016 at 5:31:04 PM

I don't know. I see The Wolf Of Wall Street and Fargo and Breaking Bad and I think of an infatuation with a very specific kind of idiocy, one that takes epic proportions well beyond what you'd expect from the everyman-ish characters. An empowering idiocy, at least for a time. It feels less like a confession or an accusation and more like a brag "I was such an asshole, but what a spectacular asshole I was! I was bold and forward and took what I wanted and claimed it for my own, and damn the consequences!"

Like miniature reflections of "Let's invade Iraq!". Speaking of which, I'm rather miffed to have foud out that Obama did not, in fact, ever apologize for that on behalf of the American people.

edited 27th Jun '16 5:33:10 PM by TheHandle

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
daltar (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#127913: Jun 27th 2016 at 5:37:24 PM

If South Park is Right Wing, it is a very bizarre Right Wing indeed when one of his episodes has Satan himself wondering how to bring his will on Earth and his nefarious vizier says "We'll do what we always do, use the Republicans!"

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#127914: Jun 27th 2016 at 5:40:20 PM

Aren't the South Park writers libertarians?

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#127915: Jun 27th 2016 at 5:42:57 PM

[up][up][up] I can't speak for Fargo, but Walter White dies in the finale of Breaking Bad, and the guy from Wolf of Wall Street got sent to prison. And yeah the "fuck em" attitude was defiantly prevalent in the lead up to Iraq. The consensus was that the French were opposing us because they were buying oil from Iraq and were pussies, and Europe itself was viewed as gay, as tolerance towards homosexuality was viewed as making a country a "gay country" ,with all the associated stereotypes involved. And even if their weren't WMD's, Hussain was backing Al Queda because they were both Muslim, the both hated America, they both regular invoked the wrath of god against us, and even if this was not the case, Saddam was evil and any "Gay" thing like international law that tried to get in the way was guilty of allowing that evil to continue to exist.

We were world police but we were, to reference Fairly Odd Parents "Badass Cops who didn't play by the rules." And that troupe was highly prevalent, remember the crime wave of the 70's-90's period had only recently ended, and anybody who complained about "police brutality" or "innocence before proven guilty", was viewed as naive at best, and at worse as a criminal themselves.

Edit: Mind you all these tendencies were magnified times a billion by the post 9/11 baserker phase the country was in, and perhaps our eagerness to find a nemesis to replace the long dead Soviet Union, the Serbs never panned out. Plus my parents, especially my mom, were and are right wing, and I was raised around a lot Military style things so the times may have been less "jingoistic", than I remember from my early childhood.

edited 27th Jun '16 5:45:14 PM by JackOLantern1337

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#127916: Jun 27th 2016 at 5:43:26 PM

I believe Parker is a registered Libertarian and Stone is a registered Republican.

Bat178 Since: May, 2011
#127917: Jun 27th 2016 at 6:04:24 PM

America is pretty much the Dumb Muscle of the world. It's no surprise they get a lot of Take That! aimed at them.

edited 27th Jun '16 6:04:31 PM by Bat178

NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#127918: Jun 27th 2016 at 6:08:44 PM

[up]I really wish you would stop saying things like that. Whether you intend to or not, you always manage to come off as incredibly condescending.

re: South Park, it's more political nihilism than anything else, with a dash of Libertarian, which is the right wing version of the Bernie Bros "the system is the problem so let's burn it down" crowd. The stupid "douche vs turd" episode pisses me off a little bit more every time someone references it in relation to real-world politics.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
GameGuruGG Vampire Hunter from Castlevania (Before Recorded History)
Vampire Hunter
#127919: Jun 27th 2016 at 6:09:59 PM

Except the English tend to phrase it in the form of resentful meekness rather than brash bravado.

The difference between an Englishman and an American is that England had an empire and lost it, while America still has its empire.

edited 27th Jun '16 6:10:33 PM by GameGuruGG

Wizard Needs Food Badly
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#127920: Jun 27th 2016 at 6:21:34 PM

[up][up]Turrk urr jerrrbz is priceless, though. [up]I wonder if it can be "translated" to some lower-class English dialect?

and Europe itself was viewed as gay, as tolerance towards homosexuality was viewed as making a country a "gay country"

How the times change.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#127921: Jun 27th 2016 at 6:25:54 PM

[up] Was that sarcastic? Not trying to be rude just asking.

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#127922: Jun 27th 2016 at 6:32:02 PM

No, just pointing out that nowadays being LGBT-friendly has become such a US flagship that other countries show off their anti-Americanism and disrespect by emphasizing their own homophobia. Likewise, when the US wants to show contempt towards foreigners/show off how progressive they are, LGBT-friendliness has become part of the arsenal of Reasons We Are Better Than You.

Thanks, Obama.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#127923: Jun 27th 2016 at 6:40:01 PM

Developing world: Look at the decadent US allowing gay rights and women into the government.

United States: Look at Europe's decadent acceptance of LGBT and immigrants.

Europe: Look at those under developed morons with their religious conservatives and prejudice

United Kingdom: (To the European Union) Screw you guys I out of here!

Just Kidding.

Inter arma enim silent leges
Antiteilchen In the pursuit of great, we failed to do good. Since: Sep, 2013
In the pursuit of great, we failed to do good.
#127924: Jun 27th 2016 at 7:26:36 PM

but Walter White dies in the finale of Breaking Bad, and the guy from Wolf of Wall Street got sent to prison

I think I'll let Tarquin explain the problem with this:[1]

nightwyrm_zero Since: Apr, 2010
#127925: Jun 27th 2016 at 8:06:40 PM

Canada: Can't we all just get along. Sorry.


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