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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#127676: Jun 24th 2016 at 1:05:47 PM

The concern of Trump's chances increasing because of Brexit is something of a Morton's Fork.

Option A) Britain leaves, and they do fairly well up until the election - proof that Trump's rhetoric is right and the US should be more isolationist/xenophobic since it worked so well for the UK!

Option B) Britain's economy does poorly, destabilizing the global market and sending ripple effects to the US - proof that the Democrats aren't fit to lead, thus Trump should be the President and not Clinton!

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#127677: Jun 24th 2016 at 1:09:43 PM

There is no built-in legal process for a state to leave the Union in the way there is for a member country to leave the EU ("Article 50"). If it ever came to a point of there being a clear majority (unlikely, even as messy as things are now) and a referendum was allowed to happen and pass, one would have to be invented (or risk Civil War II).

megarockman from The Sixth Borough (Experienced Trainee)
#127678: Jun 24th 2016 at 1:17:29 PM

Texas v. White (1869) ruled unilateral succession unconstitutional. In addition to a referendum, it's most probable any such move would also require Congressional consent.

edited 24th Jun '16 1:18:13 PM by megarockman

The damned queen and the relentless knight.
Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#127679: Jun 24th 2016 at 1:20:41 PM

If Texas asked to secede, Congress would probably give it to them, albeit under the worst conditions they can think of. (Of course, since Texas can't pay to patrol the Rio Grande for illegals...The Punishment Is the Crime?)

Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#127680: Jun 24th 2016 at 1:40:14 PM

[up] Wouldn't Texas also have to patrol their Northern borders?

Keep Rolling On
DrDougsh Since: Jan, 2001
#127681: Jun 24th 2016 at 1:42:00 PM

Why? What northerner would ever be interested in illegally immigrating to Texas?

edited 24th Jun '16 1:42:08 PM by DrDougsh

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#127682: Jun 24th 2016 at 1:52:17 PM

If Texas asked to secede, Congress would probably give it to them, albeit under the worst conditions they can think of. (Of course, since Texas can't pay to patrol the Rio Grande for illegals...The Punishment Is the Crime?)

"Alright, Texas, you win. We've deliberated it and we decided to grant your request. You are no longer a part of the United States. We've sold you back to Mexico."

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#127683: Jun 24th 2016 at 1:53:30 PM

[up][up]Well, that is where NASA is...and it's a great place to start a company, IIRC.

Leviticus 19:34
Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#127684: Jun 24th 2016 at 1:56:08 PM

[up][up][up][up]Nah. We'd just build a wall and make Texas pay for it.

JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#127685: Jun 24th 2016 at 3:09:18 PM

Why the fuck would we even let them have a referendum anyways? Also, considering we won't even get rid of the penny for fear of dishonoring Abraham Lincoln, I doubt we'd allow secession, something he spent his entire Presidency fighting against, to happen. Mind you this could change, as immigrants and milenials give no fucks about history or tradition,especially America's, for better or worse

edited 24th Jun '16 3:09:38 PM by JackOLantern1337

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
smokeycut Since: Mar, 2013
#127686: Jun 24th 2016 at 3:20:55 PM

How exactly do an entire generation and everyone born outside of this country not care about history?

Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
#127687: Jun 24th 2016 at 3:25:47 PM

Uh, millennials and immigrants are generally not the people who want to leave. It's mostly older people who feel like their rights are being infringed upon, whether or not that's actually the case.

Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#127688: Jun 24th 2016 at 3:28:43 PM

It's unlikely we'd allow secession since it's already on the books that it's illegal (in fact, IIRC there were precedents for it being illegal even before the Civil War).

However, if I understand correctly, many libertarians are of the opinion that secession being illegal is hypocritical on account of the US being formed by seceding from the British Empire. Since the Founding Fathers seceded from a government, they argue that everyone should be allowed to secede from their government more or less automatically.

Some even go as far as to say that Lincoln was in the wrong on these ground. On one of the right-wing youtube channels I used to listen to, every time they praised Lincoln they'd get a thousand of these responses (the channel has more than one video giving these people a "Reason You Suck" Speech).

[up][up]I think he's being hyperbolic. "These people generally care less about tradition". I don't particularly agree, but still.

Leviticus 19:34
pwiegle Cape Malleum Majorem from Nowhere Special Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Cape Malleum Majorem
#127689: Jun 24th 2016 at 3:44:35 PM

To anyone who wants to secede, I say: "Go right ahead, and good luck with that." Then, when they discover that they can't really manage without some kind of help from the federal government, and they come begging for handouts, tell them: "Hey, you insisted on independence, so you got it — along with all that it entails. Sorry, you're on your own."

Considering how much aid (financial or otherwise) various states and regions receive from the US government, secession looks like a losing proposition. Say, for example, one or more of the Gulf Coast states secedes. Then, when the next major hurricane devastates the region, they get no help from FEMA or the National Guard, no disaster relief funds, etc. I think they'd soon come crawling back, begging to rejoin the USA.

This Space Intentionally Left Blank.
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#127690: Jun 24th 2016 at 3:46:06 PM

[up]Well, the thing with Texas is that it has a strong enough economy that it actually could survive on its own if it seceded. It gives more money to the Federal Government than it actually receives (this is not true for most states).

Leviticus 19:34
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#127691: Jun 24th 2016 at 3:48:06 PM

Hank Paulson, Treasury Secretary under W Bush, has endorsed Clinton. And he says that there are plenty of Republicans like him.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/24/politics/hank-paulson-hillary-clinton-endorsement/index.html

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#127692: Jun 24th 2016 at 3:48:45 PM

[up][up]I don't think that's the case anymore, actually.

I've always been under the impression that surviving on their own would be pretty impossible even for the states that do pay more than they get back, let alone the ones that do the opposite.

edited 24th Jun '16 3:49:03 PM by LSBK

flameboy21th The would-be novelist from California Since: Jan, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
The would-be novelist
#127693: Jun 24th 2016 at 3:54:51 PM

I think Texas is a pretty strong state, only CA and NY can trump it. I'm not sure why they entertain the thought of being sandwiched between the US and Mexico though.

edited 24th Jun '16 3:55:46 PM by flameboy21th

Non Indicative Username
TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#127694: Jun 24th 2016 at 4:12:14 PM

A seceded Texas would be a de-facto US vassal state anyhow.

Kind of pointless.

New Survey coming this weekend!
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#127695: Jun 24th 2016 at 4:14:43 PM

I also can't help but image that in any hypothetical state that did manage to succeed that there would be a massive exodus out of the newly formed country back to the United States, probably mostly to the states neighboring it.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#127696: Jun 24th 2016 at 5:01:26 PM

I know it's a terrible idea but I think it would be funny if a state seceded and the US response was to invade the now foreign nation and occupy it indefinitely.

FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#127698: Jun 24th 2016 at 5:04:27 PM

Oklahoma would probably join any Texan Republic, so if they do flee to surrounding states, they'd have to go a ways away.

smokeycut Since: Mar, 2013
#127699: Jun 24th 2016 at 5:12:15 PM

Trump continues to be an idiot. Scotland voted to stay in the EU, as did Northern Ireland and the people in Wales who are actually Welsh (rather than old English people who retired there).

NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#127700: Jun 24th 2016 at 5:27:13 PM

To anyone who wants to secede, I say: "Go right ahead, and good luck with that." Then, when they discover that they can't really manage without some kind of help from the federal government, and they come begging for handouts, tell them: "Hey, you insisted on independence, so you got it — along with all that it entails. Sorry, you're on your own."
The problem with that is that it's bad for everyone. It might be emotionally cathartic, but literally everyone is worse off than they started in that situation.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.

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