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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#127501: Jun 22nd 2016 at 8:44:14 PM

If you ignore racial or ethnic or religious or sexual or gendered aspects of inequality you can't fix the problem. A lot of what Sanders proposed would help poor white people more than anyone else.

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#127502: Jun 22nd 2016 at 8:46:03 PM

[up] Which would totally undermine the power base of the GOP if they were successful, forcing them to either join the 21st century in terms of their attitude towards minorities or go the way of the Whigs.

Ekuran Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#127503: Jun 22nd 2016 at 8:46:08 PM

Uhuh, are those actual actual facts, or are they just parroted echo chamber ideas?

edited 22nd Jun '16 8:46:40 PM by Ekuran

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#127504: Jun 22nd 2016 at 8:49:39 PM

[up]The same could be said of you, you realize. It would just be a different hypothetical echo chamber.

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#127505: Jun 22nd 2016 at 8:51:33 PM

[up] If you say so, but in terms of actual, proposed policies along the campaign trail, both of the candidates were pretty much the same when it came to social issues; the big divergence was on economic matters and foreign policy.

edited 22nd Jun '16 8:53:47 PM by CaptainCapsase

Ekuran Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#127506: Jun 22nd 2016 at 8:52:14 PM

Facts are facts, he'd fight for those policies and he has no reason not to.

edited 22nd Jun '16 8:52:47 PM by Ekuran

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#127507: Jun 22nd 2016 at 8:54:32 PM

[up][up]Aren't you the one who kept going on about their records being mostly the same didn't matter?

[up]All that was said is that he talks about those things as if they're symptoms of one big problem and not big problems onto themselves. And forgive me, but I've heard that he'd "obviously" fight for everything harder and better than Clinton without any clear reasons besides maybe "he's not bought" to take the claim seriously.

edited 22nd Jun '16 8:56:59 PM by LSBK

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#127508: Jun 22nd 2016 at 8:56:28 PM

[up] This is specifically focusing on social issues, which was never an area where I was particularly uncomfortable about Clinton. Okay, that's kind of a lie, I've never really forgiven her for the blatant race baiting her campaign pulled as a last ditch effort during the 2008 campaign.

edited 22nd Jun '16 9:00:33 PM by CaptainCapsase

smokeycut Since: Mar, 2013
#127509: Jun 22nd 2016 at 9:01:00 PM

The key point is that Sanders thinks the solution is in economics. In some cases, yes that's true. But economics aren't why 50 people were killed in Orlando. Economics isn't why black people are being killed by cops. Economics aren't why ISIS is killing innocent muslims and waying a war on other religions. Hillary at least knows how to deal with those problems besides saying "if we break up the banks then wait, everything will sort itself out"

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#127510: Jun 22nd 2016 at 9:23:40 PM

[up] An extensive welfare state (ie Sanders' proposal) is a major bulwark against radicalism, and . Despite the hysteria raised by right wing groups in Europe about how Sweden is being taken over by Muslims and they're running around raping and killing everyone, it's not nearly as bad as in many of the nations bearing the brunt of the Syrian refugees, despite Sweden having one of the highest per-capita refugee populations in Europe.

On the second topic, you do realize Sanders' platform included major reforms to criminal justice and the police system? Specifically directed at the mass incarceration and police brutality directed at African Americans, particularly the former.

Then on the third topic, Sanders' proposed plan for dealing with ISIS is essentially what Obama is trying to do; sustain an air campaign to buy time for local forces arrayed against ISIS to organize, and supporting those forces with material aid and expertise.

Ekuran Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#127511: Jun 22nd 2016 at 9:36:15 PM

Capsase grossly exaggerates Clinton's negatives. Maybe she'd be more willing to cut more slack for the financial institutes that are fucking everyone over so she can get something else out of it (like trans bathroom rights or something), but she's never going to turn the world into some capitalistic cyberpunk hellhole. He isn't really saying that either, even though it may come off like that a lot of the time.

[up][up]Being a tone-deaf subconsciously racist old white man who sucks at saying anything about what else he wants to do beyond addressing economic issues, doesn't stop him from wanting to address police violence by demilitarizing the police or stopping Voter ID laws that disenfranchise minority voters, and all the other social polices he shares with Hillary that he wants to implement, which all have nothing to do with breaking up big banks. Being an inarticulate idiot doesn't negate that.

What's likely happening is you're letting "Bernie or Bust" stupid young white dudes who are actually saying that color your perception of Sander's actual policies and goals and making it seem like he's saying breaking up big banks will magically solve all our problems, but that makes no logical sense, because then there'd be no point to having all these other stated policies that aren't even indirectly related to that. The guy is an actual politician with a full set of policies to address the issues facing the US today, he's not some single issue wonk that he gets flanderized as by memes and media and echo chambers, and it's just disappointing to keep seeing people think that here of all places.

edited 22nd Jun '16 9:58:01 PM by Ekuran

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#127512: Jun 22nd 2016 at 9:53:54 PM

[up] Obviously neither Clinton nor Sanders would make or break the nation. It's quite likely it would be capable of surviving Trump, though that's something that's thankfully not looking particularly likely to be tested.

smokeycut Since: Mar, 2013
#127513: Jun 22nd 2016 at 9:57:01 PM

Yeah, no. The people who would survive a Trump presidency are the straight, cis, white people. Expect another couple Orlandos each year if he wins. Hundreds of more Tamir Rices.

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#127514: Jun 22nd 2016 at 9:58:52 PM

[up] I mean, in the long term, a Trump presidency might very well doom human civilization due to continued inaction on climate change, but that's something that's true of most of the GOP, but on the scale of his hypothetical term in office; Believe it or not, the US president is not a dictator, and we aren't living in 1930s Germany, so it's not going to become one in the span of a decade.

edited 22nd Jun '16 10:08:13 PM by CaptainCapsase

smokeycut Since: Mar, 2013
#127515: Jun 22nd 2016 at 10:04:19 PM

The thing about Trump is that he's brought out the crazy rightwing neo nazis and confederates and secret KKK members and told them "i support you". His presidency will tell them "run wild, we run the country".

A Trump presidency means more than just Trump in the white house. It means every bigoted, gun toting maniac will become inspired to shoot black kids, kill gay and trans people, and commit whatever atrocity they want, because they know theres a guy like them in the oval office.

kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#127516: Jun 22nd 2016 at 10:04:46 PM

[up][up]

Believe it or not, the US president is not a dictator, and we aren't living in 1930s Germany...

As far as you know...

edited 22nd Jun '16 10:04:59 PM by kkhohoho

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#127517: Jun 22nd 2016 at 10:08:19 PM

[up][up] Given the GOP and the democrats both despise him, do you really think he'd last more than a few months before being impeached? That's something that's more or less inevitable with a democratic senate and would happen with a Republican senate so long as he had an establishment Republican as VP.

edited 22nd Jun '16 10:08:57 PM by CaptainCapsase

Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#127518: Jun 22nd 2016 at 10:12:28 PM

[up] That is of course, if Trump lasts long enough to be impeached...

Keep Rolling On
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#127519: Jun 22nd 2016 at 10:14:00 PM

[up] We're talking about something purely hypothetical. He's not even going to get into office without something utterly catastrophic happening. I'm talking a scenario where Clinton gets indicted, Sanders gets assassinated, Biden has a heart attack, and Martin O'Malley is the only candidate left to turn to. That's the kind of insanity would be necessary for him to be elected.

edited 22nd Jun '16 10:14:14 PM by CaptainCapsase

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#127520: Jun 22nd 2016 at 10:16:49 PM

[up]Now that inspires a scary thought. Get Trump elected, get him impeached or otherwise removed from office, and the GOP gets an establishment Republican president who wasn't voted into office (because I can't imagine anyone voting Trump is going to post attention to his vp pick unless they're even crazier than he is)

edited 22nd Jun '16 10:17:01 PM by sgamer82

TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#127521: Jun 22nd 2016 at 10:20:52 PM

Why does O'Malley get no respect?

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
GameGuruGG Vampire Hunter from Castlevania (Before Recorded History)
Vampire Hunter
#127522: Jun 22nd 2016 at 10:22:59 PM

[up][up] Two words: Gerald Ford.

edited 22nd Jun '16 10:23:29 PM by GameGuruGG

Wizard Needs Food Badly
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#127523: Jun 22nd 2016 at 10:23:10 PM

[up][up] Because he's a very boring candidate, and doesn't earn the kind of quasi-pity that Jeb does for basically being a King Of The Hill character/being on the receiving end of Trump's bullying.

edited 22nd Jun '16 10:26:08 PM by CaptainCapsase

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#127524: Jun 22nd 2016 at 10:40:00 PM

[up][up]Ford was not a very good president at all, but given how having a man who was never even elected put in office could have gone, I think things turned out pretty well.

GameGuruGG Vampire Hunter from Castlevania (Before Recorded History)
Vampire Hunter
#127525: Jun 22nd 2016 at 10:44:32 PM

[up] The point is that he wasn't elected (As either President OR Vice-President) and we survived it.

Wizard Needs Food Badly

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