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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
I think the best approach would be some sort of licensing and training system, like with cars, that is accessible to everyone. Tax funded if necessary to stay within the bounds of the second amendment. Better yet, make it a photo-id, thus totally short-circuiting Republican attempts at photo-id laws.
I can guarantee that if the government at all cares about that kind of person, it's because they behave in an incredibly suspicious manner. And if the government decides to go all totalitarian on everyone, a gun isn't going to do much good against a tank.
edited 15th Jun '16 2:23:47 PM by Zendervai
There's a guy in the Gun Thread right now saying he needs a 30 round magazine to protect himself from the 1992 LA riots. I'm not saying all gun rights guys are crazy, but too often the loudest voices make arguments like that which makes taking the sane guys seriously depressingly difficult.
US gun culture is something I must say I find endlessly if worryingly fascinating. We're right next door to you. We import almost all your cultural norms. Yet we emphatically don't share that part of your culture. I live in a rural, conservative county. I have friends who are big time hunters and gun collectors. Even they don't think they need thirty or fifty round magazines or armour-piercing ammunition or what have you.
edited 15th Jun '16 2:26:55 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar
Because the best response to a riot is to start mowing people down indiscriminately? Yeah, that'll help. /sigh
edited 15th Jun '16 2:27:34 PM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"Y'know, at that point I'd just let the rioters take what they want. If I start shooting, the result would be some dead or wounded rioters and a very dead me. This idea of the lone cowboy hero making a courageous stand against the onrushing hordes is very much fiction.
edited 15th Jun '16 2:38:29 PM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"Trump's net disapproval rating is up to 70%.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/15/politics/washington-post-abc-news-poll-unfavorable-ratings/index.html
Yeah, analysts and pollsters seem to be thinking that he fucked up Orlando badly.
Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.![]()
I assume at that point you're thinking that what the rioters want is your life, more than any of your posessions.
Or your body. Or the life or body of someone in your family.
Good. Vote Loki.
edited 15th Jun '16 2:42:42 PM by TheHandle
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Then you might as well accept that you're going to die. I mean, sure, you've got nothing to lose at that point, but the situation is so far gone anyway that it hardly matters.
A couple of other things about our hypothetical scenario:
- The weapon is being used for home defense, which is a long-established right independent of anyone's Second Amendment rights. My argument this afternoon has been against public carry, not against home defense. note
- Evidence shows that a shotgun is an even greater psychological deterrent than a rifle, so you're using the wrong tool for the job.
- The instant a bullet leaves the chamber of your weapon, you are guaranteeing that if you weren't going to be killed before, you are now.
edited 15th Jun '16 2:42:51 PM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"Apparently a new poll by Wasgington Post-ABC News
puts Trump's disapproval rating at 70%, a 10 percentage point jump from their last poll.
The poll was mostly conducted before the shootings in Orlando, so it's still too early to tell how those events are going to affect the numbers. And of course while Washington Post-ABC News seems to be reliable in their polling, it's still just one poll. But it does show that Trump is losing ground even among the demographics that make up the core of his base instead of the demographics that already generally oppose him opposing him even more).
But if it's a sign of where things are going, there is a scenario where Hillary beats Trump 2-1 in the popular vote in November.
Beat me too it @Rationalinsanity!
edited 15th Jun '16 2:48:26 PM by Falrinn
This is shaping up to be a disastrous election for Republicans. Let's hope it turns out that way.
edited 15th Jun '16 2:44:27 PM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"If Trump reacts the way he does to every crisis, big or small, the way he did to Orlando moderates and swing voters will be done with him and some Republicans will just stay home. Its a documented trend that Americans demand that their candidates behave "presidential" in the face of adversity. I don't think Trump can get away with breaking that rule.
Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.It turns out that Americans don't appreciate people egotistically gloating in the wake of a tragic massacre.
You'd think Trump would know that, seeing as one of his favorite talking points is the myth of Muslims celebrating as the Twin Towers fell.
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.The reason people aren't murdered every time they leave their house isn't because other people don't have the means to kill them, it's because the vast, vast majority of people aren't murderers.
For the record, magazine size is really only important in combat situations where you're more often than not shooting in order to interfere with the other guy's shooting (ie, making him keep his head down) rather than actually trying to hit someone with each shot. It's also a lot more important when you're firing in full auto or burst mode, which uses ammo a lot more quickly. Neither applies to a civilian.
That said, both sides of the debate have issues with the least reasonable voices being the loudest ones.
TLDR — the ultimate disconnect we have here is that Fighteer is arguing from a position that guns are dangerous so you shouldn't be allowed to have them until you prove to his satisfaction that you're not going to do bad things with them. My position is that guns are like any number of other things in that they're dangerous in the wrong hands, but most people are perfectly safe with them, so we should do some basic due diligence to make sure that you're not one of those "wrong hands", but then you should be able to have your guns without being treated like a potential murderer.
edited 15th Jun '16 3:31:09 PM by NativeJovian
Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
Your summary is basically correct. I do not believe that there is any inherent justification for having a weapon; you must demonstrate both proficiency and lack of ill intent before you may own one, and you may not carry one in public under any circumstances, open or concealed, unless you are a security or law enforcement professional who is acting in an official capacity.
edited 15th Jun '16 3:32:15 PM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"Supporting the banning of gun sales to people on the terrorist watch-list does seem sensible.
Trump has a habit to go from straight-up madness to the odd sound comment to straight up madness like a yo-yo.
Semi-sound comment seeing as terror watchlists have floppy and sloppily handled inclusion criteria on par with sex offender registries.
edited 15th Jun '16 3:49:12 PM by SeptimusHeap
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

People who support Open Carry or like to conceal these weird and extreme weapons are usually the same type of people who believe the Second Amendment was made to defend them against;
Whenever I read an account of these sorts of people, I immediately hear of this talk of "defending yourself against the government", which is basically advanced paranoia and a product of a diseased mind. I always find myself wondering if they're going to be the next mass shooter.
And always they're basically white people afraid that somehow their "right" to call a black man a very crude name being taken away is "bad". Just as well people who're upset they don't have the "right to bully".
I don't think much of them.