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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
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Whenever a police officer shoots a civilian, there is an extensive, mandatory review process to determine if the shooting was avoidable. This isn't rocket science; we've been doing it for a long time. I just don't want friendly-fire casualties to be brushed off here.
edited 15th Jun '16 8:11:17 AM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"![]()
You might be able to tell by the shapes of the bullets? I'm not sure if that'd work IRL, but it works in movies.
edited 15th Jun '16 8:12:22 AM by Protagonist506
Leviticus 19:34You can with a detailed autopsy and by examining the bullet fragments left inside the body but the gunman had an AR-15 likely firing .223 or 5.56mm amunition and the police all had AR-15 derivatives firing .223 or 5.56mm ammunition.
They both had the same equipment. So how do we know it happened? The only source is the Daily Heil too, that's got me suspicious.
edited 15th Jun '16 8:15:07 AM by LeGarcon
Oh really when?The gunman did not have an AR-15; he had a Sig Sauer MCX. One of the things that makes this weapon remarkable is that it's designed for concealability; an open question from the shooting is how he got it and a handgun into the club in the first place. Wearing a heavy coat in downtown Orlando in June should be a sign of insanity if not malice.
Even if all the weapons are the same model, ballistics analysis can tell which gun fired which bullet. Again, this is not rocket science; we've been doing this sort of forensic work for decades. Let's not invent problems to gnash our teeth over; there are enough real ones as it is.
edited 15th Jun '16 8:18:10 AM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"![]()
It doesn't matter. Rifling on the gun barrels can be uniquely matched to the patterns of scoring on the bullets. It's literal textbook forensic work.
edited 15th Jun '16 8:19:55 AM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"If there was any friendly fire at all. All we have is the OPD chief refusing to say with 100% certainty that it absolutely didn't happen. Instead he's waiting for the investigation to make that determination, as he should.
Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.The civilian MCX's folding stock may be shorter than the collapsing buffer tube stock on a regular AR, but that's it. The rest of the rifle is no more concealable than your average SBR or pistol AR-15.
Whether or not surveillance footage exists of the front door is certainly an open question - you would think that patting down for weapons of any sorts is mandatory, but then this is America...
edited 15th Jun '16 8:27:37 AM by Krieger22
I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiotI wonder if it'll turn out that the bouncer(s) recognized him as a club regular and so didn't screen for weapons.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"I'm assuming that the door staff are all amongst the dead so we are unlikely to ever know.
As for a possible bullet form the police, did any hostages die during the recuse? My understand is that all hostages at the time of the breach were gotten out alive, which means the cops can't have killed anyone.
What's possible is that a stray bullet might have hit somebody during the chaos, the guy in charge is waiting to here back before he can be certain about that, but honestly even if someone was hit I doubt anyone is gonna complain, they got the hostages out alive, I'm calling that a win.
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ CyranIf so, he was casing the joint for years. No, all the indicators point to an Armored Closet Gay who became radicalized by ISIS propaganda and decided to carry out an attack on the objects of his self-hatred.
I've seen reports, however, that his wife is under investigation because she actually helped him case the club while he was planning his attack. That's some twisted love, right there.
edited 15th Jun '16 8:59:51 AM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
x3: The Washington Post's
graphic (as in drawings and floorplans, not "Viewer Discretion Is Advised") and current description suggests door staff was bypassed (first targets were at the bar, after which an off-duty cop started to return fire) and unlikely to be among dead (though if someone has information otherwise feel free to overrule me).
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I'm not sure if ISIS progoganda was ever responsible, remember this guy also pledged loyalty to Hamas, AQ and several other Islamist organisations, from the sound of it he literally just rattled off the names of every Islamist organisation he could remember, much the same way the stabber in London a while back just shouted whatever he could think of.
To get to the bar he had to have entered via a door, the fact that he has currently only been I Ded after he got in doesn't mean he somehow bypassed the door.
X3 One day my iPad will work alongside me instead of against me.
edited 15th Jun '16 9:18:16 AM by Silasw
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
The FBI originally investigated him because he expressed jihadist sentiment to his co-workers; he was later found to be in contact with a U.S. citizen who traveled to Syria and carried out a suicide bombing. So even if it wasn't ISIS specifically, he did become radicalized into that mentality at some point.
Sure, and the question is how he got past is while armed, I don't know how Florida works but around here you get patted down before going into any club, just to make us you're not bringing in your own booze if nothing else.
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ CyranYeah. How, exactly, did he get an MCX through the entry check? The answer to that question will be revealing.
edited 15th Jun '16 9:31:28 AM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"Guh, I should probably be more thorough. ABC News puts the shooting starting
before he got inside (OPD officer returned fire) and apparently he got in anyway. Basically, there was no chance to check him for weapons.
edited 15th Jun '16 9:34:27 AM by megarockman
The damned queen and the relentless knight.

Reality sucks sometimes, and there isn't always a perfect solution. Saying that you refuse to accept it doesn't make it any less true.
Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.