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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

vandro Shop Owner from The little shop that wasn't Since: Jul, 2009
Shop Owner
#126326: Jun 14th 2016 at 10:45:58 PM

If Automation keeps rising, not many jobs will remain.

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#126327: Jun 14th 2016 at 10:46:23 PM

Yeah, for US Socialism means soviet union or fail republic in latin america and eastern Europe, not surprise there.

And in way they are right, here in Venezuela we try the old good socialism system and we are right now LA#1 shithole and unsurprisly people in the party put everything that isnt them in the "Ultra-right" box

So is maybe just a simple case of "there is two side in this conflict: me and the ones who are wrong"

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#126328: Jun 14th 2016 at 10:56:36 PM

Automation isn't the same thing as not capable of doing work, though, which is what I'm asking for some clarification on from Capsase here. That just sounds like a weird way to phrase it if what he means is automation will steal all the jobs.

TerminusEst from the Land of Winter and Stars Since: Feb, 2010
#126329: Jun 14th 2016 at 11:00:35 PM

[up]

Probably not been productive, as in producing value (GDP or otherwise). Since most of the work would be done by the machines, humans would almost certainly move to doing something else they'd rather be doing. It's also a question will they be allowed to work, since machines are far more trustworthy and precise.

Handmade cars and other stuff would be (as they're now) rarities.

edited 14th Jun '16 11:02:16 PM by TerminusEst

Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#126330: Jun 14th 2016 at 11:04:38 PM

[up][up] Not capable in the sense that they aren't capable of any tasks a machine can't do better at a lower cost. Automation, and more generally, artificial intelligence is a fundamentally different kind of transition than the industrial revolution, though its potential impact on society is even bigger. Whereas industrialization overcame the limitations of the human body, AI overcomes the limitations of the human mind, and, in time, will eventually render humans as we know them obsolete.

[up][up][up] It's hard to say honestly how much of that is due to the measures taken by the United States against such regimes, both covert and overt. It'll be decades before we get to find out the full extent of the CIA's activities in Latin America during this period.

edited 14th Jun '16 11:08:53 PM by CaptainCapsase

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#126331: Jun 14th 2016 at 11:39:50 PM

[up]Indeed but it create a intersting parallel with US right now: first the trust in the establehsment is low for what people consider faliures in recient years: 9/11, Irak,Afghanistan, the culture wars in states heat up a lot as LGBT and conservative religious people clash over and over by diferent issues this create a climate that generate Trump and in way, Berine oportunities in political field: people are just fed up in how thing happen and just want to stop, not matter how

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Stormtroper from Little Venice Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: I-It's not like I like you, or anything!
#126332: Jun 14th 2016 at 11:59:31 PM

How convenient, blaming socialism's failures on this mysterious unseen force and not the readily visible effects of their policies.

edited 15th Jun '16 12:31:27 AM by Stormtroper

And that's how I ended up in the wardrobe. It Just Bugs Me!
TerminusEst from the Land of Winter and Stars Since: Feb, 2010
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#126334: Jun 15th 2016 at 12:55:10 AM

I think you're jumping the gun just a tad bit on the whole 'outstripping human intelligence" bit. From what info I've got on the subject any prediction that'll happen any time soon is actually astronomically low. Of course, this also leads into a massively off topic discussion about what is intelligence.

Clarste One Winged Egret Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
One Winged Egret
#126335: Jun 15th 2016 at 3:06:38 AM

While "humans will become obsolete" is obviously something that we're currently nowhere near approaching, I think it's just an inescapable fact that increased productivity due to computer-assisted humans means you can have less people doing the same job. It doesn't even have to be anything world-changing. For example, maybe a slightly smarter search algorithm makes legal research simpler, and that puts a whole lot of paralegals out of work. What was formerly professional, skilled labor becomes entirely unnecessary.

You could probably come up with more "work" for them to do, but at a certain point you'd inevitably have people be figuratively digging pointless ditches and then filling them. And you'd have to ask why capitalism is structurally incapable of allowing for increased productivity to translate into increased leisure time.

edited 15th Jun '16 3:08:17 AM by Clarste

Iaculus Pronounced YAK-you-luss from England Since: May, 2010
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#126337: Jun 15th 2016 at 3:45:46 AM

Don't we have a thread for automation folk?

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#126338: Jun 15th 2016 at 3:48:46 AM

[up][up] Holy crap that is insane, seriously wow.

DrDougsh Since: Jan, 2001
#126339: Jun 15th 2016 at 3:50:53 AM

That is some scary stuff.

I don't suppose cameras are allowed in there? I'm wondering what effect it would have on Trump's image if someone filmed the experience.

FieldMarshalFry Field Marshal of Cracked from World Internet War 1 Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Field Marshal of Cracked
#126340: Jun 15th 2016 at 3:53:20 AM

since there is no way I'm going to watch that... how close was it to this?

also, from a few pages back, I wrote Know Your Meme off during the whole Quinn thing, WHICH WE ARE NOT GOING TO GET INTO HERE!

advancing the front into TV Tropes
smokeycut Since: Mar, 2013
#126341: Jun 15th 2016 at 4:45:41 AM

Ugh, I'm officially a million times more terrified of a Trump presidency now, which is saying something. I'm terrified of these people, and what they'll do if they get what they want. Please tell me Trump can't actually win?

Kayeka (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#126342: Jun 15th 2016 at 4:51:35 AM

[up]Probably not, as long as the people opposing him don't get complacent and stay home from voting.

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#126343: Jun 15th 2016 at 4:53:03 AM

That happened in Greensboro, that's not exactly far away from where I live.

Oh really when?
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#126344: Jun 15th 2016 at 5:30:35 AM

in a heavily automated economy where a sizable plurality of the working age population simply isn't capable of doing useful work

If machines free up enough leisure time, people should be able to retrain to do jobs they can actually be good at, or invent new jobs entirely.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#126345: Jun 15th 2016 at 5:31:29 AM

Regardless, such a society will have to redefine its internal concepts of what "work" is and what it means to be a successful person. To move into post-scarcity without doing so invites social catastrophe.

Heck, it's only been a scant three centuries since the Industrial Revolution forced a massive redefinition of human purpose from community-seeking beings to money-seeking beings. We weren't always capitalists.

edited 15th Jun '16 5:32:52 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
germi91 Public Servant from Spain Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Public Servant
#126346: Jun 15th 2016 at 5:35:32 AM

You can watch the Greenboro Trump rally here.

There are a great number of things that are objectionable from the entire speech. Donald Trump is the epitome of excessive. He lacks any sense of moderation, holds no virtue nor encourages it in others and shows a remarkable lack of coherence. The only thing I can go by for his proposals would be his campaign website, but everything about his personality and character tells me he cannot be trusted to even follow through his own policy programme.

There is also a problem with almost every claim he makes. He does not show where he gets his statistics, provides no evidence and is essentially the King of Generalizations and Simplistic Statements. There were claims he made which I don't know if they are true or not (nor can I know given that I am not American nor do I live in the US), but they sound either like half-truths, manipulations, outright lies or misinformation. There were some elements which rang true, but his boisterous nature and arrogant demeanour force me to think the worst of him even when he may say something that is agreeable.

He also has a tendency to veer off-topic to the point where he mixes subjects and criticisms without a sound common thread to tie them together. Take his statement about Bill and Hillary Clinton "owing money" to states "which kill gays" referring to the "gulf states" specifically. Where does such a claim come from? He then claims that the US has "no money" because "it owes 19 trillions US dollars" which will soon become "21 trillion dollars". Following this he says that the US has no money to "pay for bringing people that we don't know" and for an infrastructure which is "going to hell", the US "is going to hell" and apparently the US military is in such "trouble", the military is "depleted" (of what? Be specific!) and the military planes are so old they need new parts and apparently they are replaced with parts from "plane graveyards and museums". These are quite a number of claims he's making and, while I understand the need to keep messages short and to the point when making a speech and during a campaign, there is a difference between sending a to-the-point message for the purpose of uniting, bringing supporters together and making very broad questionable claims where you're almost directly accusing your opponents of illegality.

He also seems to cut himself mid-sentence quite a number of times. As if the original trail of thought were not important any longer and quickly changes to another unrelated sentence.

I don't mean to offend anyone here who may support Trump, but he simply does not have the character required for someone who wishes to represent the American sovereign body. A system of representation is one where you must have a great degree of trust from the electors to the elected. Even if you try to justify his character by the need of having someone who is "pragmatic" or who can "tell it as it is" (here "as it is" is in itself VERY questionable given his claims), few of his mannerisms and none of his behaviour shows me that he even knows what being realistic or pragmatic means, especially when having to negotiate and/or bargain with other representatives. The impression I have is that he sees the US state in the same way as his businesses, believing that he can deal with both in the same way. There may be aspects and experiences from the private sector that can help or aid a representative, but one should never confuse the private and the public.

His arrogance is also a serious problem. He seems to think that his company is the greatest company that has ever existed. A little humility in my opinion goes a long way. Trump also mentions that Hillary at some point mentioned how she does not "like Trump's tone while reading it off a teleprompter". Right after he declares how "amazing" the company he built is.

What am I supposed to think? I do feel sorry for supporters of Trump. They do not deserve to have such a terrible candidate.

edited 15th Jun '16 5:56:43 AM by germi91

"It is true that we are called a democracy, for the administration is in the hands of the many and not of the few."
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#126347: Jun 15th 2016 at 5:36:37 AM

A Texas school stood by while a black girl got "play-"lynched.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#126348: Jun 15th 2016 at 5:37:53 AM

[up][up] Congratulations, you win one hundred Govvies. It's a meaningless award I made up to celebrate people who understand how government works.

If only it were possible for our own media to so straightforwardly analyze Trump.

edited 15th Jun '16 5:38:35 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
TerminusEst from the Land of Winter and Stars Since: Feb, 2010
#126349: Jun 15th 2016 at 6:08:27 AM

Populism 101.

Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#126350: Jun 15th 2016 at 6:13:49 AM

What am I supposed to think? I do feel sorry for supporters of Trump. They do not deserve to have such a terrible candidate.

I believe they utterly deserve each other.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.

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