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TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#126051: Jun 13th 2016 at 2:48:56 PM

She's saying that there's no difference between whether we call it Radical Jihadism or Radical Islam and that we have to defeat it either way, but she also calls attention to the "Radical" qualifier, saying that by no means are we to paint all Islamic people with the same brush.

I can support that.

Both terms "mean the same thing," Clinton continued, adding, "And to me, radical jihadism, radical Islamism, I think they mean the same thing. I'm happy to say either, but that's not the point."

"I have clearly said many, many times we face terrorist enemies who use Islam to justify slaughtering innocent people. We have to stop them and we will. We have to defeat radical jihadist terrorism or radical Islamism, whatever you call it," Clinton said later on MSNBC's "Morning Joe," reiterating, "it's the same."

The U.S. cannot, on the other hand, she added, "demonize, demagogue and declare war on an entire religion." Clinton also said she could assure Americans that she is equally committed to fighting Islamic extremism as well as protecting law-abiding Muslims.

edited 13th Jun '16 2:50:48 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#126052: Jun 13th 2016 at 2:51:13 PM

For the love of god this whole radical Islam controversy is stupid. Liberals refusing to use the terms is one of the few areas where PC really is refusing to tell it like it is. And Republicans have gotten way to butthurt over a stupid turn of phrase. Their the Dems said it congrats now can we move on. The answer of course is no because this is US politics and it's still fucking June. We still have 5 more months of this shit left to go.

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#126053: Jun 13th 2016 at 2:53:51 PM

Good fucking god, Assange and his ilk are idiots. I'm pretty Wikileaks has endangered lives, though maybe not to the extent Manning did.

edited 13th Jun '16 2:54:32 PM by Rationalinsanity

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#126055: Jun 13th 2016 at 2:58:14 PM

Is Assange still running Wikileaks? Is Wikileaks even in control of currently relevant information? Does anyone even care about Assange anymore, since he's been hiding out in some embassy or other for years now?

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#126056: Jun 13th 2016 at 3:00:18 PM

Assange needs to be jailed (after a fair trial), that's reason enough to still care about him.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
DrDougsh Since: Jan, 2001
#126057: Jun 13th 2016 at 3:00:23 PM

I agree. The refusal to use this term never made much sense to me — I mean, obviously we should avoid equating terrorism with Islam itself, but that doesn't mean there's any sense in shying away from acknowledging it as religious extremism.

That said, Clinton's timing might not be that good here because it makes her look like she's conceding to Trump's demand instead of standing firm.

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#126058: Jun 13th 2016 at 3:02:13 PM

The left doesn't use it because the media, the Right, and almost every American mentally removes the word radical from the term.

Oh really when?
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#126059: Jun 13th 2016 at 3:06:11 PM

Kind of how Radical Feminists are a pretext for characterizing all feminists as bitter transphobic misandrists, Bomb-Throwing Anarchists are another for characterizing all Anarchists as terrorists, and so on and so forth.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#126060: Jun 13th 2016 at 3:07:29 PM

The problem is that Muslims are more visible than those groups, you get politicians saying inflammatory crap and you get people being assaulted or murdered for being Muslim/looking like one.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#126061: Jun 13th 2016 at 3:08:26 PM

Shout out to the long-suffering Sikh for refusing to throw us under the bus.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
NoName999 Since: May, 2011
#126062: Jun 13th 2016 at 3:08:52 PM

Let's face it, he used the same M.O. as your garden variety right wing shooter did. So either he's just a nut like the them or it is a radical Islamist attack but you have to call all those white shooters terrorists as well.

And the fact that he's called a terrorist while the white ones aren't is bloody infuriating.

Not to mention, Republicans are skirting the fact that the victims are gay.

Then again this always happen: Like with Elliot Rodger (sexism), Dylan Roof (racism), everybody seems to be skirting the homophobia issue. Blatantly ignoring the fact the killer targeted a SPECIFIC group of people.

edited 13th Jun '16 3:13:12 PM by NoName999

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#126063: Jun 13th 2016 at 3:11:53 PM

Also this attack seems to have been motivated specifically more by homophobia instead of radical Islam.

It was an attack of homophobia, this guy won't have only gotten his ideas about killing gay people from Islam, he'll have also gotten them from Donald Trump and the Republican Party at large.

There's a reason the press aren't talking about the guy who was caught trying a similar attack, there's a reason that already we've had a Baptist minister, the WBC and a Republican Lieutenant governor all (at least seemingly) declare this attack a good thing, homophobia is far from something special to Islam.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#126064: Jun 13th 2016 at 3:18:04 PM

Let's face it, he used the same M.O. as your garden variety right wing shooter did. So either he's just a nut like the them or it is a radical Islamist attack but you have to call all those white shooters terrorists as well.

And the fact that he's called a terrorist while the white ones aren't is bloody infuriating.

Agreed. He's a terrorist but so are they. There's a profound reluctance in the media to call spree shooters terrorist when they're 20-something white guys, presumably because if you call them terrorists, then you can't use terrorism as an excuse to hate brown people anymore.

edited 13th Jun '16 3:19:08 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
FieldMarshalFry Field Marshal of Cracked from World Internet War 1 Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Field Marshal of Cracked
#126065: Jun 13th 2016 at 3:20:23 PM

remember how the armed group of extremists took over government property a bit back and threatened to shoot anyone who got close? those were terroi-oh, wait, they were white, that means they were patriots! fucking hypocrisy...

advancing the front into TV Tropes
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#126066: Jun 13th 2016 at 3:23:55 PM

Wonder what the response would be if these Malheur folks had suceeded at replicating the Oklahoma City bombing. Maybe I am being naive but the latter was flashy mass murder so it may get a proper "terrorism!" response.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#126067: Jun 13th 2016 at 3:28:23 PM

[up][up]And they were ridiculed and called Y'all Qaeda and only one got killed after getting involved in a FBI shooting.

[up]Well, they may be idiots but they are idiots who like being alive as far it seems.

edited 13th Jun '16 3:29:17 PM by AngelusNox

Inter arma enim silent leges
FieldMarshalFry Field Marshal of Cracked from World Internet War 1 Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Field Marshal of Cracked
#126068: Jun 13th 2016 at 3:30:52 PM

mainstream media refused to refer to them as terrorists, despite their actions basically being a textbook definition of terrorism

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TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#126069: Jun 13th 2016 at 3:33:37 PM

Still, terrible at PR. Time for some nostalgic comic relief:

Man, Colbert has a talent for savage but classy mockery.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#126070: Jun 13th 2016 at 3:36:20 PM

I dunno, I heard some ultra-libertarians complain about them being labeled terrorists.

I'd argue that-while immoral-what they did technically wasn't terrorism per say (they killed exactly zero defenseless civilians), and besides that, their entire goal was to be labeled terrorists so they could invoke Your Terrorists Are Our Freedom Fighters. Labeling them terrorists would have been a bad idea.

edited 13th Jun '16 3:37:02 PM by Protagonist506

Leviticus 19:34
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#126071: Jun 13th 2016 at 3:41:52 PM

Didn't donations to the IRA plummet after 9/11? I think a lot white people are willing to acknowledge white people can be terrorists, they're just extremely uncomfortable with them being domestic terrorists.

Which is still a big problem, but of a different flavor.

FieldMarshalFry Field Marshal of Cracked from World Internet War 1 Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Field Marshal of Cracked
#126072: Jun 13th 2016 at 3:45:57 PM

[up][up]terrorism is defined as "the unofficial or unauthorized use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims" they had political aims (despite the fact nobody could understand them and was never quite sure what they wanted) and they were using intimidation, with the locals saying they damn well felt intimidated, and threatening at every opportunity to resort to violence, and when they did... it didn't end well

[up]IRA were dead by 9/11, they had gone legit in the 90's as part of the peace deal, though there are still a few insane splinter groups

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majoraoftime (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#126073: Jun 13th 2016 at 3:50:19 PM

Reports coming out now that the shooter was a regular at Pulse and that he messaged men on gay dating apps.

Possibly this will turn out to be a guy with severe sexual issues who latched onto whatever he could to justify lashing out.

Of course, his father's take on the shooting ("killing people is bad, not for us to judge gay people, God will punish them for what they do") makes me rather strongly suspect his upbringing played a role.

JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#126074: Jun 13th 2016 at 3:53:39 PM

Yeah a lot of these parents of ISIS recruits seem a bit to eager to wish they were killed. I strongly suspect they were the types who cursed around their kid and were shocked when the brat started cussing, cursing being Jihadi propaganda in this metaphor

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
FieldMarshalFry Field Marshal of Cracked from World Internet War 1 Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Field Marshal of Cracked
#126075: Jun 13th 2016 at 3:54:32 PM

oh god.... an armoured closet gay... how depressing, at least the majority seem to stick to just preaching against themselves

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