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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#125826: Jun 12th 2016 at 6:03:22 PM

[up][up] Part of that risk is you being an accessory to an act of terrorism.

Don't want to be charged with being an accessory to terrorism? Don't sell deadly weaponry to terrorists. Can't ID if someone is a terrorist or wanna be terrorist? Them don't carry out deadly weapon sales based on your good judgment.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
flameboy21th The would-be novelist from California Since: Jan, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
The would-be novelist
#125827: Jun 12th 2016 at 6:04:58 PM

Really. If that's the case then there will be no gun sale left. Which is I guess is what you want.

edited 12th Jun '16 6:07:29 PM by flameboy21th

Non Indicative Username
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#125828: Jun 12th 2016 at 6:07:46 PM

Nope, you can have gun sales, but the person has to go though the proper checks to determine that the person is of good character, not just fucking guess. You run a background check and the guy then commits a crime? Not your fault, you make a personal judgment call and the guy then commits a crime, hell yeah that's your fault.

edited 12th Jun '16 6:09:36 PM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
storyyeller More like giant cherries from Appleloosa Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: RelationshipOutOfBoundsException: 1
More like giant cherries
#125829: Jun 12th 2016 at 6:11:40 PM

Is it really that bad on the rest of the internet?

I checked a pro-Trump subreddit earlier, and it was all a cesspool of hate speech and crowing.

Obviously like the real world, there are good and bad parts of the internet.

Blind Final Fantasy 6 Let's Play
GameGuruGG Vampire Hunter from Castlevania (Before Recorded History)
Vampire Hunter
#125830: Jun 12th 2016 at 6:16:27 PM

From what I had heard, this guy actually did go through the required background check. The guy didn't have a criminal record either or even owned guns until a week before this massacre from what I've heard. The only issue is that the FBI did have him on a watch list, but apparently took him off of it as they saw him as no threat. In addition, just being on an FBI Watch List does not mean he loses the right to own a gun.

edited 12th Jun '16 6:18:18 PM by GameGuruGG

Wizard Needs Food Badly
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#125831: Jun 12th 2016 at 6:21:52 PM

It's a pretty shit background check that can't pick up an ISIS recruit.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#125832: Jun 12th 2016 at 6:28:39 PM

Ain't no recruit. Acted on his own, then gave credit. Shit kid.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
GameGuruGG Vampire Hunter from Castlevania (Before Recorded History)
Vampire Hunter
#125833: Jun 12th 2016 at 6:30:44 PM

He wasn't an ISIS recruit from what has been revealed about him so far. He had leanings towards that ideology, which was why he was on an FBI Watch List, but again, I had heard the FBI cleared him as being of no harm. Also again, being on an FBI Watch List doesn't mean they could ban him from getting guns, because... The NRA made sure of that. sad

Wizard Needs Food Badly
Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#125834: Jun 12th 2016 at 6:30:52 PM

@125823 - My opinion of Bill Gates is hardly unblemished but a: it's not like he has that sort of authority and b: I'm pretty sure his reply would involve telling Trump to fuck off.

BUT...the idea of an internet kill switch is one that even the Obama administration tossed around. (They backed away, but still.) The given reason was as an emergency measure in the event of war but the minefield of civil liberty issues with it is hard to get around.

edited 12th Jun '16 6:31:49 PM by Elle

Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#125835: Jun 12th 2016 at 6:32:09 PM

I honestly doubt he actually was an actual recruit, too. He seems like a lone wolf using ISIS as a flag, rather than the real deal. Well, to me at this point, at least. :/

He made a good bet: ISIS certainly claimed him post-spree. With only cursory prompting. Which... made him an instant martyr for a cause, rather than the lone wolf twat with delusional, narcissistic tendencies he probably actually was.

edited 12th Jun '16 6:34:00 PM by Euodiachloris

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#125836: Jun 12th 2016 at 6:34:44 PM

ISIS recruit in the making then, he might not have been with ISIS for long but he did pledge his loyalty to them.

Someone better be asking the FBI questions over this, they dropped the ball taking him off that list.

edited 12th Jun '16 6:35:22 PM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
GameGuruGG Vampire Hunter from Castlevania (Before Recorded History)
Vampire Hunter
#125837: Jun 12th 2016 at 6:41:50 PM

[up] Do note that his pledge of loyalty to ISIS was on the phone with 911 while he was committing the Orlando Massacre. The FBI would not have known about that pledge until it was too late.

edited 12th Jun '16 6:45:00 PM by GameGuruGG

Wizard Needs Food Badly
Falrinn Since: Dec, 2014
#125838: Jun 12th 2016 at 6:43:10 PM

[up][up][up] From what I understand, ISIS does actively encourage these sorts of attacks, which is why they will generally claim responsibility for any attack that looks like it might of been committed in their name. But the chances of them being responsible for it as in it being explicitly authorized by their leadership in Raqqa is basically zero.

edited 12th Jun '16 6:43:35 PM by Falrinn

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#125839: Jun 12th 2016 at 6:45:01 PM

Sure, but the views, anger and hatred that led him there existed well before, his consumption of exstreamists literature existed before. It's a shit background check that can't pick up on someone being a asshole whose going to murder a bunch of people.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
flameboy21th The would-be novelist from California Since: Jan, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
The would-be novelist
#125840: Jun 12th 2016 at 6:46:11 PM

You run a background check and the guy then commits a crime? Not your fault

Non Indicative Username
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#125841: Jun 12th 2016 at 6:50:33 PM

Yep, I'm not saying it's the fault of the guy who ran the check, I'm saying that it's a fucking shit check and you guys need better ones.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
pwiegle Cape Malleum Majorem from Nowhere Special Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Cape Malleum Majorem
#125842: Jun 12th 2016 at 6:53:03 PM

[up]Oh, come on. Only in a totalitarian police state, with everyone under constant surveillance, could they actually nip such things in the bud. One bad apple fell through the crack (to mix metaphors), and you want to tar and feather everyone who's still trying to do a Herculean labor? It's so easy to sit in judgement of others, isn't it?

Just being an asshole isn't against the law. If it were, the majority of the population would be doing life without parole.

edited 12th Jun '16 7:12:26 PM by pwiegle

This Space Intentionally Left Blank.
GameGuruGG Vampire Hunter from Castlevania (Before Recorded History)
Vampire Hunter
#125843: Jun 12th 2016 at 6:55:45 PM

[up][up] Which is understandable... I am for reasonable gun control, and the United States could be loads better in terms of gun control. That being said, I am not sure the United States as it currently is wouldn't just ban guns from all Muslims and call it gun control.

edited 12th Jun '16 7:00:21 PM by GameGuruGG

Wizard Needs Food Badly
Krieger22 Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018 from Malaysia Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
#125844: Jun 12th 2016 at 6:57:31 PM

The FBI can ban you from boarding a plane without explaining why but can't stop people on watchlists from purchasing firearms for any reason.

On one hand, innocent people have been banned from boarding planes due to an aversion of the One-Steve Limit, but then there's this.

I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot
JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#125845: Jun 12th 2016 at 7:04:14 PM

[up][up] It would be struck down by the Supreme Court, and would be inpractial since the Muslims could just convert to Christianity and then convert back once they've bought their gun.

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas Since: Apr, 2010
Professional Forum Ninja
#125846: Jun 12th 2016 at 7:05:37 PM

BUT...the idea of an internet kill switch is one that even the Obama administration tossed around. (They backed away, but still.) The given reason was as an emergency measure in the event of war but the minefield of civil liberty issues with it is hard to get around.

No form of communication should be blocked, especially in the event of a domestic war. This could hurt the country even greater if, say, any sort of disaster hit.

Case in point, the Surprise Galveston Hurricane of 1943, which struck the island while ship reports were silent while German U-boats were out and about. Luckily the storm didn't do much damage.

edited 12th Jun '16 7:05:52 PM by tclittle

"We're all paper, we're all scissors, we're all fightin' with our mirrors, scared we'll never find somebody to love."
GameGuruGG Vampire Hunter from Castlevania (Before Recorded History)
Vampire Hunter
#125847: Jun 12th 2016 at 7:13:09 PM

[up][up] I know that, but so would banning someone from obtaining a gun without being convicted of a crime. The Second Amendment is as much a part of the Constitution as the First.

Wizard Needs Food Badly
Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#125848: Jun 12th 2016 at 7:23:05 PM

There was nothing wrong with the background check. No history of violence, thus, they can't really give a reason to deny him one, because "just a feeling" doesn't work in reality. He wasn't a member of ISIS in any way.

The only thing at best would be the homophobia found out, however, that does not indicate he would directly attack them either. Like with anything, a background check only does as much as the kind of information you get. Now, if he had a history of violence homophobia attacks, they could justify it. Or a history of violence in general. Neither of which are the case. This is a sad event, but the chances of preventing it without going complete dictatorship and ignoring sensible rules would've prevented it. Nothing justifies it, but this is solely the guy's fault. He had a goal to kill, but it's not like they knew that. He didn't have a history to prove that goal was likely. As I said, just being a bigot does not mean you will do violence. It may just be at worst name calling. They need something concrete to deny him a gun. Which they lacked.

It's a very unfortunate thing, but the best that could've been done to avoid it would be forcing everything as open carry and that somebody could report him early enough to prevent any shootings, which isn't likely either.

I hate guns, btw. But I refuse to act irrational here about them either. There was nothing that could be done to keep a gun away from him, sadly, unless we knew/will know/find out he has attacked someone with it(which we didn't know till the mass shooting). I don't know how they could've avoided this beyond constantly fighting bigotry and showing that it will always end bad for the bigot. Which probably wouldn't have worked either, likely.

On another note, I didn't get the part of the bomb story that well. Did he make the bomb and set it off to avoid "jail"?

Shadow?
smokeycut Since: Mar, 2013
#125849: Jun 12th 2016 at 7:25:13 PM

He did have a history of violence. The guy abused his ex wife constantly.

desdendelle Hooded Crow from Land of Milk and Honey (Sergeant) Relationship Status: Hiding

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