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Nov 2023 Mod notice:


There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.

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In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.

Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

storyyeller More like giant cherries from Appleloosa Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: RelationshipOutOfBoundsException: 1
More like giant cherries
#125701: Jun 12th 2016 at 8:21:56 AM

On an unrelated topic, there's one thing I've been wondering about the talk of a lack of good VP candidates - why can't they just pick Biden again?

Blind Final Fantasy 6 Let's Play
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#125702: Jun 12th 2016 at 8:24:03 AM

There's nothing stopping them from doing that, but Biden doesn't want the job, basically. The guy has had a lot of tragic things happen in his personal life, he's basically retiring from politics.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
Xorn15 Nurse Mordred Attending from R&D Platform, Seychelles Waters Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Nurse Mordred Attending
#125703: Jun 12th 2016 at 8:31:25 AM

/pol/ is celebrating right now; they believe that the shooting will make people swing towards Trump (as well as their usual "keel all fagits" mentality coming into effect).sad

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#125704: Jun 12th 2016 at 8:41:55 AM

[up][up][up][up]Standard right-winger gun "logic".

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
thatguythere47 Since: Jul, 2010
#125705: Jun 12th 2016 at 9:11:23 AM

Fucking hell. I'll never understand what can make a person into that. How do you wake up in the morning and decide to be a spree killer? I'm disappointed with us as a species at this point. I think I'll start rooting for the asteroid in Deep Impact.

Is using "Julian Assange is a Hillary butt plug" an acceptable signature quote?
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#125706: Jun 12th 2016 at 9:15:41 AM

It's depressingly simple really. You just have to decide that society would be perfect it those people weren't there. Then you shoot as many of them as you can to "make a statement".

Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
#125707: Jun 12th 2016 at 9:19:39 AM

And while a huge chunk of the population is in denial, the US has a severe problem when it comes to guns. When the US matches up with Somalia, which is practically a failed state, in terms of the number of gun crimes a year, something is very, very wrong. The right for everyone to own guns is not worth the hundreds of deaths a year that spring from the horribly toxic gun culture. And it's the culture, not the existence of guns.

It doesn't help that people keep saying "it's a mental health issue" and then blocking every attempt to fix the mental health crisis that is still happening in the States, all the way back to Reagan. Hell, the guy who shot Reagan tried to commit himself, but was turned away under the regulations Reagan put in place.

edited 12th Jun '16 9:20:40 AM by Zendervai

war877 Grr... <3 from Untamed Wilds Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Grr... <3
#125708: Jun 12th 2016 at 9:21:05 AM

[up][up]Well, you also have to somehow decide that human life is not worth much in addition. And also, that the law is stupid.

This shooting is going to give the presidency to clinton. Trump's rhetoric has a high chance of being a factor that caused the shooting. Most people are going to make this connection.

edited 12th Jun '16 9:21:31 AM by war877

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#125709: Jun 12th 2016 at 9:23:35 AM

Interested to know if this may be a homphobic hate crime. Islamism is strongly associated with homophobia, after all.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#125710: Jun 12th 2016 at 9:24:18 AM

[up]Probably, yes. It's either that or one hell of a coincidence.

edited 12th Jun '16 9:24:23 AM by Protagonist506

Leviticus 19:34
IFwanderer use political terms to describe, not insult from Earth Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
use political terms to describe, not insult
#125711: Jun 12th 2016 at 9:25:43 AM

[up][up]I heard the shooter was non-religious, so I don't think it has any relation with islamism.

edited 12th Jun '16 9:27:08 AM by IFwanderer

1 2 We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be. -KV
Ogodei Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers from The front lines Since: Jan, 2011
Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers
#125712: Jun 12th 2016 at 9:25:50 AM

I think it will still be a blip on the radar, ultimately, because the issue can drive both right-wing and left-wing talking points, since it was a shooting with standard commercial guns and targeted a gay club, but the shooter was Islamic and with possible (though this is unsubstantiated) ISIS ties.

Senselessly tragic, but i agree the timing makes me uneasy.

Krieger22 Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018 from Malaysia Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
#125713: Jun 12th 2016 at 9:26:51 AM

Bear in mind that this is all second hand and I can't verify the details so far:

  • The shooter is of Afghan descent, no word on what generation he is.

  • There are FBI sources claiming that he was already on a watchlist for visiting jihadi websites, but they couldn't do a thing to stop him from getting a gun.

  • His family reckons homophobia is more likely to be the cause than jihadi indoctrination. And yes, they are appalled.

I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot
DrDougsh Since: Jan, 2001
#125714: Jun 12th 2016 at 9:27:46 AM

I doubt it's a coincidence that a Gay Bar was hit. For someone with Jihadist sympathies, a Gay Bar is the very sybol of western decadence.

Ogodei Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers from The front lines Since: Jan, 2011
Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers
#125715: Jun 12th 2016 at 9:33:47 AM

That right there is the key problem with the second amendment and where it collides with security concerns, because as a right (however broad or narrow), it can't be removed without due process, which means you can only remove the right to gun ownership from people who have done something wrong and not from people who are at high risk of doing something wrong (unless they are certifiably insane, but again the certification part is a lengthy process). That's what makes the difference between life and death for their would-be victims.

The idea of concealed carry doesn't cotton with stopping things like this either, if the person has a death wish, they could still open fire and put a half-dozen people down before a CCW licensee could reasonably react.

tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas Since: Apr, 2010
Artificius from about a foot and a half away from a monitor. Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Norwegian Wood
#125717: Jun 12th 2016 at 9:43:40 AM

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/06/12/omar-mateen-id-d-as-orlando-killer.html

[up]Do you think this will make conservatives more sympathetic to gay people or to Muslims? They're going to pick a scapegoat when the liberals reframe it as "One American killed fifty others with the guns we keep trying to regulate."

edited 12th Jun '16 9:46:23 AM by Artificius

"I have no fear, for fear is the little death that kills me over and over. Without fear, I die but once."
war877 Grr... <3 from Untamed Wilds Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Grr... <3
#125718: Jun 12th 2016 at 9:43:54 AM

I thought the second amendment guaranteed a state the right to have a militia independent from the federal government. Does it even say anything other than that people have the right to walk around sleeveless?

JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#125719: Jun 12th 2016 at 9:44:18 AM

[up][up] Great so he's a wife beater too. Another stereotype checked off the list.

Seeing as ISIS has a habit of tossing gay people off of buildings I don't see any contradiction between him being a Jihadi and him wanting to kill gays. And it would be unwise for the Dems to hop on the "this was caused by Trump's speeches" bandwagon. It would make Trump seem opposed to him, while the Democrats would look like Terrorist lovers.

Edit: A better strategy would be to compare the man's mindset to the typical Trump voter, especially in the regards to the gay hating thing, though it won't be nearly as effective with Trump as it would have been with Cruz.

edited 12th Jun '16 9:46:17 AM by JackOLantern1337

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#125720: Jun 12th 2016 at 9:46:12 AM

[up][up]The courts have ruled that anyone can be considered a militia for weapons ownership purposes. This is reason enough to fight like hell and never let the right flood the courts will conservatives again.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#125721: Jun 12th 2016 at 9:54:13 AM

Fucking hell Dan Patrick.

Oh really when?
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#125722: Jun 12th 2016 at 9:56:53 AM

Something pleasant in all this madness:

People Are Lining Up To Donate Blood For The Orlando Shooting Victims: https://www.buzzfeed.com/stephaniemcneal/blood-donations-florida?utm_term=.xvLro3b8E

LogoP Party Crasher from the Land of Deep Blue Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: You can be my wingman any time
Party Crasher
#125723: Jun 12th 2016 at 9:57:50 AM

You know Trump's wall poll numbers just got ten feet higher.

It is sometimes an appropriate response to reality to go insane.
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#125724: Jun 12th 2016 at 10:03:01 AM

Why? Gay people aren't going to vote for Trump, if anything it is going to confuse Trump voters, who do they root for? The foreigners or the gay?

We've already gotten Republicans implying that the victims deserved it because they were saying, that's not going to help Trump's numbers.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#125725: Jun 12th 2016 at 10:10:15 AM

Theyll simply show hatred for the foreigners, and contempt for the gay, who were "deluded" enough to think they could be allies with the foreigners.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.

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