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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#125576: Jun 10th 2016 at 10:16:09 PM

[up]No matter who is elected, there will be riots. Once you get the ignorant masses riled, there's no calming them again.

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#125577: Jun 10th 2016 at 10:18:03 PM

Why is charisma so important to people anyhow? If your candidate inspires, but can't get anything done, they're literally worthless.

edited 10th Jun '16 10:30:02 PM by TacticalFox88

New Survey coming this weekend!
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#125578: Jun 10th 2016 at 10:23:36 PM

I agree. I understand wanting to like the person you vote for but that definitely shouldn't be the most important thing to you.

CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#125579: Jun 10th 2016 at 10:42:18 PM

[up][up]The innards and functions of government are incomprehensible to most people. Charisma, they can understand.

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
Eschaton Since: Jul, 2010
#125580: Jun 10th 2016 at 10:51:53 PM

The Daily Show did a whole bit on Clinton's likability as well.

Though "you don't have to like your [racist] boss" is what many Republicans are going through right now.

edited 10th Jun '16 10:53:23 PM by Eschaton

Perian Since: Jun, 2016
#125581: Jun 10th 2016 at 11:45:58 PM

Oh sure, blame the media. It's all AP's fault. That's why he was already losing before they ever hit California.

Why do you have to cast everything I say in the worst possible light? I was talking about the content of the article: it's difficult to interpret the number of young Sanders supporters not showing up to vote in California since the media had already announced that Clinton had won.

As for Clinton and the money, yes it might influence her, yes that sucks, however her norm isn't that different from that of other politicians (which may just indicate that everyone is bought by said industry, but still, if you'd be okay with any other Dem from New York you should be okay with Clinton)

Well, as I said, Bernie Sanders clearly did not; if I can trust the content of the Greenpeace article, Obama did not take such large amounts of lobby money either, and many politicians in the past also have not. I blame every politician who takes such contributions.

She won, she's the Democratic nominee, the other option is Trump, you think the world hatred you under Bush? Trump might prompt a Europe wide defection from NATO to a new Warsaw Pact, you'd be the laughing stock of world powers and the plaything of intelligence leaders, Putin would eat Trump for breakfast.

As I said, I obviously consider Trump to be far worse than Clinton. But not wanting to vote for Clinton is not the same as wanting to get Trump elected, especially if you do not live in a swing state. There are many reasons why people do not want to vote for Clinton, her ties to big money being a major one, and maybe it's a good idea that the Clinton camp tries to reach out to the Sanders camp and talk about their concerns, instead of being condescending to them and demonizing them (I am talking in general here, not at all about you).

Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#125582: Jun 11th 2016 at 12:31:48 AM

[up]

Well, as I said, Bernie Sanders clearly did not; if I can trust the content of the Greenpeace article, Obama did not take such large amounts of lobby money either, and many politicians in the past also have not. I blame every politician who takes such contributions.

Then what would you suggest instead? Limits on donations and the removal of anonymity on donations? Government funding of Parties and Election Campaigns, right down to Town level?

edited 11th Jun '16 12:50:30 AM by Greenmantle

Keep Rolling On
TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#125583: Jun 11th 2016 at 1:16:45 AM

Unless we figure out EXACTLY what we want to do with free speech and politics, any potential campaign finance reform is gonna fall flat on its face.

New Survey coming this weekend!
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#125584: Jun 11th 2016 at 3:07:12 AM

[up][up]Not a bad idea.

edited 11th Jun '16 3:08:51 AM by TheHandle

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Perian Since: Jun, 2016
#125585: Jun 11th 2016 at 4:12:05 AM

[up][up][up] That's a very good question, and I don't have a definite answer to it myself. The former solution would help a great deal, but might not really solve the problem. The latter is the way it's done in the country I live in, and it has its own share of problems - for instance, many consider this funding to be unnecessary high, and I think it would be hard to sell to many Americans to pay tax money for the campaigns of political parties. Regardless, I think a national debate on the issue is pressing (as Tactical Fox 88 also points out), considering that it affects policy on so many levels.

Iaculus Pronounced YAK-you-luss from England Since: May, 2010
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
#125586: Jun 11th 2016 at 4:16:03 AM

Charisma is a tool to get things done. A chief of state is a salesperson for their country and their party, so they have to be able to present a compelling case for their national and governmental policies. Having charisma, the ability to sway people, is really important for that. Political chops are useful, but slightly more relevant to the team of backroom advisors who get their 'face' pointed in the right direction.

What's precedent ever done for us?
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#125587: Jun 11th 2016 at 4:21:42 AM

Trump fends off criticism: 'In fact, I am the least racist person'. Yes, and I am a winged lizard with three eyes on stalks.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
carbon-mantis Collector Of Fine Oddities from Trumpland Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Married to my murderer
Collector Of Fine Oddities
#125588: Jun 11th 2016 at 5:03:39 AM

[up]Quiet flesh-brother, the world issssss not yet ready for the harvest to come.

Deadbeatloser22 from Disappeared by Space Magic (Great Old One) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
#125589: Jun 11th 2016 at 6:20:40 AM

Pretty much my reaction.

"Yup. That tasted purple."
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#125590: Jun 11th 2016 at 6:50:55 AM

She'll go "Yeah, I'll sign a 15 dollar bill if it passes my desk, but I personally think it's too irresponsible and destructive to small business owners. 12 Dollars is what we should aim for."

That's a swerve to the right.

That's not a swerve to the right, that's literally been her position since her debates with Sanders at the very least. She's said that she supports people who want to push for $15 at the state and local level, and she'd sign a $15 bill if one was sent to her as president, but she feels that a $12 federal minimum combined with higher minimums elsewhere if local voters want to see it is a better solution than a nationwide $15 minimum.

It's not a swerve if you're saying the exact same thing you've been saying.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#125591: Jun 11th 2016 at 6:53:04 AM

RE: Sanders not being owned

Sanders got elected in Vermont by the gun lobby. So under this particular brand of logic he was in the pocket of the NRA instead of the banks or fossil fuels. Such an improvement.

Also if taking Super PAC money instantly makes you crooked, well Sanders took Super PAC money during his last bid for reelection to the Senate. The Super PAC in question? Clinton's. Does that mean he's owned by her? Or her donors?

Hell, given that Sanders' largest contributor to this campaign was Alphabet Inc I guess that means he's owned by the Internet? Watch as he continues to support Google in their willingness to help China repress the people.

EDIT: Romney continues to oppose Trump.

edited 11th Jun '16 6:57:44 AM by AmbarSonofDeshar

Cronosonic (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#125592: Jun 11th 2016 at 7:21:20 AM

By the way, Trump's intended focus for campaigning when it comes to states includes deep-blue states like New York and California, which is frustrating the RNC:

Meanwhile, the Trump high-dollar fundraising operation is showing signs of duress, people here say. A joint fundraising agreement was hatched last month to split proceeds between the RNC and the Trump campaign. And while the first joint fundraisers have gone well, RNC chair Reince Priebus has phoned some associates expressing frustration that Trump wants to direct dollars to his own ambitious plans, according to a person who has spoken directly with Priebus, which includes quixotic bids to win deep blue states like California and New York.

The RNC did not respond to a request for comment.

His campaign map is hilariously bad.

Perian Since: Jun, 2016
#125593: Jun 11th 2016 at 7:22:46 AM

[up][up] Can you please give sources for your claims. With regards to the gun lobby claim, I can only find that they urged people to vote for Sanders, not that he actually accepted money from them. I've googled for Super PA Cs, but I only found that there are some unaffiliated Super PA Cs backing him (see the Politi Fact page on that), which is hardly comparable.

Also, again, you assume that my goal is to vilify Clinton, which I have repeatedly said not to be the case. It is not about the person to me, I am simply stating some of the concerns that people have with her. I would be much more willing to accept an alternative world version of Clinton who did not have such ties.

edited 11th Jun '16 7:42:03 AM by Perian

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#125594: Jun 11th 2016 at 7:57:39 AM

The gun lobby claim is about the 1990 Vermont election. The NRA supported Sanders's independent bid for Vermont's House seat back then.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#125595: Jun 11th 2016 at 8:02:28 AM

[up][up][up] Are those States that Trump has business interests in?

Keep Rolling On
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#125596: Jun 11th 2016 at 8:06:09 AM

I am sure Trump's enterprises have economic activity in all major US states. As for campaigning in New York, it's his home state but Hillary has a strong presence there as well. Dunno what he hopes to accomplish in California, sure 55 electors are a huge boon but he's way behind in all polls I know of.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#125597: Jun 11th 2016 at 8:20:12 AM

It's also not going to help other republicans in the state, they took a serious beating in the primary and Trump pushing in Cali right now is like trying to lift a 10 ton rock without any counterweight, it isn't going to do crap.

Especially when they aren't even on the Ballot for the Senate seat...

Hell it might even hurt people like Mc Carthy the immigration issue is split almost a 50/50 split. You should see his ads lol, he is already running You Tube ads.

edited 11th Jun '16 8:31:20 AM by Memers

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#125598: Jun 11th 2016 at 8:28:18 AM

Sure about that? California's 23th district seems rather heavily Republican to me. Overcoming a 49.6% margin may be a though climb for a Democrat even with Trump on the ballot.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#125599: Jun 11th 2016 at 8:31:00 AM

Considering his ads are pretty much all about farming and keeping things running, he seems to think so. If Trump goes through with his whatever there will be a massive labor shortage and riled up farm workers union so it is a big issue.

We are 35% Latino and even the white guys around here hate Trump with a passion, especially the religious ones.

edited 11th Jun '16 8:44:28 AM by Memers

smokeycut Since: Mar, 2013
#125600: Jun 11th 2016 at 9:21:00 AM

Wait, does he really think he can win NY? People here have hated him for decades! The only ones who like him are the hardcore teapartiers, who have some delusion that there are more of their group in NY than there actually is.


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