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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

flameboy21th The would-be novelist from California Since: Jan, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#125552: Jun 10th 2016 at 7:15:10 PM

Making the argument that she represents their interests better than the completely inexperienced, advice immune Trump is not a rightward shift. A rightward shift would require something in her policies changing. This is her making her case to people who might be wavering that she is indeed the better option.

Regardless of party affiliation, a smart presidential candidate has to make the argument to vote to them to the entire American people.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#125553: Jun 10th 2016 at 7:15:24 PM

Yeah I don't see Clinton trying to get more "moderate" Republicans as her swerving right, it's trying to get more votes by saying she's closer to their views than Trump is.

When she starts backtracking on some of the stuff she says then it'll be fair to make that claim, but until then, like Nativie Jovian said, it just sounds like "I don't like Clinton, so I expect her to do stuff I don't like without proof" and doesn't come off as particularly justified.

edited 10th Jun '16 8:06:12 PM by LSBK

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#125554: Jun 10th 2016 at 8:01:22 PM

Clinton's basically telling moderate Republicans "If elected, the country will still be here in 4-8 years. And maybe you'll be able to salvage your image among minorities and not be exiled to the political wilderness for a generation or two."

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
ILoveDogs Since: May, 2010
#125555: Jun 10th 2016 at 8:58:00 PM

So, there's been a lot of talk about the possibility of Trump either dropping out before the convention (due to the psychological and financial stresses of campaigning) or the GOP ratfucking him out of it (by writing the rules of this year's RNC to prohibit him). As much as it'd make me feel better not to have to worry about Trump, this alternative is just as scary. If Clinton suddenly has to switch tactics midstream, it could make things much hairier against, say, Paul Ryan or Scott Walker. And while the RNC derailing him would almost certainly rip the GOP in half, appointing someone if he drops out won't. And that's not even going into the Johnson spoiler effect if neither of those happens...

So, what happens if he drops out/is replaced? Should I worry?

GameGuruGG Vampire Hunter from Castlevania (Before Recorded History)
Vampire Hunter
#125556: Jun 10th 2016 at 9:01:09 PM

Clinton's argument here is that she is the Status Quo and for Republican donors, that's what they want to hear. Yes, it is a Democratic Status Quo, but that is better for the Republican donors than Trump's Change.

Wizard Needs Food Badly
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#125557: Jun 10th 2016 at 9:02:17 PM

Well, no. Sounds like your anxiety is talking again. I very much doubt Trump is going to drop out. Since, you know, he's going to do what most people do and rely on donations to fund his campaign. And he's shown no signs of breaking in that manner. Like at all. His ego won't let him. And the Republicans are lining up behind him, however reluctantly, because to reject him would cause the voting public to reject them.

Besides, it'd be a disaster for the Republican party for their nominee to suddenly drop out. This being entirely unprecedented, there's no telling who'd end up getting picked. Or if anyone even would before November.

edited 10th Jun '16 9:03:01 PM by AceofSpades

ILoveDogs Since: May, 2010
#125558: Jun 10th 2016 at 9:03:24 PM

Ah. See, I thought that they'd have planned it out ahead of time. Like, having Ryan or Walker or Rubio at the ready just in case.

TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#125559: Jun 10th 2016 at 9:06:35 PM

Imagine the October surprise being Trump dropping out while the GOP scurries to find someone to replace him..

Ah, a man can dream

New Survey coming this weekend!
ILoveDogs Since: May, 2010
#125560: Jun 10th 2016 at 9:09:06 PM

[up] But what if they just plug in one of their golden boys? They've already got people who know about them, and Clinton wouldn't be able to use her Trump attacks on them.

flameboy21th The would-be novelist from California Since: Jan, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
The would-be novelist
#125561: Jun 10th 2016 at 9:12:00 PM

If those golden boys win then at least they won't burn the country down.

Non Indicative Username
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#125562: Jun 10th 2016 at 9:20:56 PM

Yeah but if it happens in mid-October or something it would screw up everything for the GOP. They'd have to rebuild their entire plan too.

CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#125563: Jun 10th 2016 at 9:22:34 PM

"If those golden boys win then at least they won't burn the country down."

They'll still leave behind the cancer of Republican-nominated Supreme Court justices.

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#125564: Jun 10th 2016 at 9:33:09 PM

The point is they're making plans specifically for Trump to be their candidate and are unlikely at this point to actually be planning for his ousting. They'd lose a significant chunk of their voter base. And Scott Walker couldn't even say in the primary for very long; I don't think he counts as one of their golden boys anymore. And I doubt they'd put for Paul Ryan because of all the fuckery it took to get him to be the Speaker; they'd have to fill that position if he ran for Presidency.

I mean, shit, barely anyone who wasn't Trump made any kind of an impact during the primary. Anyone they could replace Trump with just wouldn't win. Especially if picked during a mad scramble in October.

PotatoesRock Since: Oct, 2012
#125565: Jun 10th 2016 at 9:38:02 PM

it just sounds like "I don't like Clinton, so I expect her to do stuff I don't like without proof" and doesn't come off as particularly justified.
My proof is it's standard operating procedure for an official running for election to run as fast to the center as possible once they're ensured victory of their primary.

And much of the post Mc Govern-Mondale/Reagan Democrat strategy is "Square the Circle by running to the Center", a strategy that got Bill elected twice. It's called Triangulation.

"But she's not Bill!" Yeah, but often people who are related hire their family's political contacts/friends that were used during the last time those families ran, who will often suggest similar strategies. And she was constantly touted as "Co-President" during Bill's runs, meaning she wasn't an outside force not involved in her husband's political decisions and runs.

So based on previous patterns, I expect to start seeing her swerve right to the Center and walks back as much as she can without the Left/Progressive Wing hissing and revolting.

Or to put it simpler: I will expect the worst to happen so I can be pleasantly surprised when it doesn't. It's a form of cynicism that's worked very well for me my entire life and keeps my stress low.

"But when will you admit defeat?" Convention and/or Debates (provided Trump isn't a complete garbage chicken shit who dodges them.) Basically somewhere where she's under the spotlight hard enough that backpedaling will hose her.

Though yes, I'm not very hype for Hillary. Personally I think she wasn't a particularly good option for the party to pick, because of her lousy charisma, which results in any time a skeleton comes out or a scandal hits, she trends towards acting in such a way where if she didn't do something wrong, it has the unfortunate appearance to the general public that she's hiding something or that she got her hand caught in the cookie jar. (Which is probably why every-time she goes from Elder Statesman to Acting Politician, her likeability tanks in general polls. While when she floats away from office, her likeability jumps through the roof.)

I think on the election trail, she's a weak candidate, and she's lucky she got Trump as her opponent.

(And even then, I'm utterly fucking anxious because I expect Brexit to cause an economic cascade fallout that damage the US economy, which'll be blamed on Democrat Trade Deals, and then we get His Toupee-ness in Office, because when the economy tanks, the opposition party basically gets an "Auto-In" to the Presidency and Congress.)

MEANWHILE:

Ryan under GOP fire for calling Trump's remarks "Racist". I wonder if the rest of the GOP will throw him under the bus and try and persona non grata him to appease the Toupee.

Clinton Team hires Sanders' top student organizer as the Clinton national campus and student organizing director.

edited 10th Jun '16 9:39:56 PM by PotatoesRock

ILoveDogs Since: May, 2010
#125566: Jun 10th 2016 at 9:41:30 PM

But what if it's not in October? What if it's later this month, or in early July?

Again, I'm not trying to make conspiracy theories, I just want to know how this will play out.

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#125567: Jun 10th 2016 at 9:42:13 PM

He's the Speaker, I think it would be hard to unperson him at this point.

And I gotta imagine that hiring Sander's staff is more of a clue that she's going to stay on the path she's currently on. You're making mountains out of molehills.

[up]This is how it will play out: Trump's not going to suddenly abandon his campaign. It's highly unlikely. And in the event that he does, no one here knows what will happen because such a thing is completely unprecedented in American politics. If it happens, we'll just have to ride it out. And again, you're bringing your anxiety into a discussion where maybe it's best to just get off the internet until you feel better. And if it does happen, I very much imagine it will be very hard to drum up enthusiasm and voter support from the Republican base at that point.

edited 10th Jun '16 9:45:21 PM by AceofSpades

PotatoesRock Since: Oct, 2012
#125568: Jun 10th 2016 at 9:46:07 PM

He's the Speaker, I think it would be hard to unperson him at this point.
The House Caucus can force a referendum on him and boot his ass out of the seat to shove in a more Trump friendly Republican, if it's decided he's too much of a RINO.

You're making mountains out of molehills.
It sounds like mountains but it's more of hills rather than mountains. She'll go "Yeah, I'll sign a 15 dollar bill if it passes my desk, but I personally think it's too irresponsible and destructive to small business owners. 12 Dollars is what we should aim for."

That's a swerve to the right.

I'm not exepecting her to take Republican talking points if you thought that's what I meant. I expect her to take up "Focus Group Tested And Proven(TM) Centrist Talking Points".

edited 10th Jun '16 9:49:34 PM by PotatoesRock

ILoveDogs Since: May, 2010
#125569: Jun 10th 2016 at 9:47:45 PM

IIRC, isn't Ryan actually pretty darn conservative?

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#125570: Jun 10th 2016 at 9:49:36 PM

Yes, he is. And considering how hard it was to fill the seat after Boehner left, I doubt they'd bother any time soon with booting Ryan. The position is kind of considered poison now, they'd have a hell of a time getting anyone else to fill it.

PotatoesRock Since: Oct, 2012
#125571: Jun 10th 2016 at 9:50:54 PM

Yes.

He's very conservative.

But calling Trump a racist, he can become Persona Non Grata, i.e. A RINO, for being Insufficiently Republican by not parroting every last squawk out of Trump's mouth.

ILoveDogs Since: May, 2010
#125572: Jun 10th 2016 at 9:52:23 PM

I think there's more dissent against Trump than you realize. Romney said that he'd consider endorsing Gary Johnson today, for instance.

PotatoesRock Since: Oct, 2012
#125573: Jun 10th 2016 at 10:01:33 PM

Those in Washtington, in Congress, are going to stand by Trump, because of the Republican Commandant: "Thou Shalt Not Speak Ill Of Another Republican" with the Addendum "Especially If The Republican Is Your Presidential Candidate".

Which is the point of the article. The DC GOP is going to stand by Trump in case he gets in, so they remain in his good graces.

Romney can sit out and endorse whoever and go play golf. These guys in DC have to deal with regime change. Romney doesn't.

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#125574: Jun 10th 2016 at 10:03:57 PM

If Trump is forced out now, the GOP is probably screwed. Any moderates they would pick up would be offset and then some by Trump's base revolting and staying home (or torching the convention center...).

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#125575: Jun 10th 2016 at 10:14:27 PM

If Trump were forced out now the GOP convention would end in shooting, it's not going to happen.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran

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