Nov 2023 Mod notice:
There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.
If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations
and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines
before posting here.
Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.
If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules
when posting here.
In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.
Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
It would be no issue at all if people were not constantly implying that this means that his supporters do not care about minorities.
edited 9th Jun '16 12:45:56 PM by Perian
Just because some folks might like what Sanders is saying doesn't mean the campaign is deliberately reaching out to them or even wants them. Remember when Trump had security throwing black kids out of his rallies? That was happening because some black kids were legitimately interested in hearing what he had to say despite him wanting nothing to do with them.
You don't have to be targeted by a message to hear it and go, "That sounds pretty cool. I'm onboard with this."
edited 9th Jun '16 12:49:41 PM by TobiasDrake
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
But didn't you now? Every political position in the US is represented by one of the major political parties, and the same positions are shared by all members of said party!
"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"Take note at some of the contortions that Trump "Absolutely no way" "supporters" are doing.
So, right after saying elsewhere that posting in this thread gave me a lot of anxiety and that I wasn't gonna do it (based on prior experiences here around the time of the Chelsea Manning conviction), I wound up looking at the last few pages and deciding to post here.
Gonna start with a question. I get my information from these sources and others like them: The Young Turks, Glenn Greenwald, Mondoweiss, Electronic Intifada, Al-Jazeera, Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, and The Intercept. Is this likely to translate into me holding a lot of views that have people telling me I'm wrong, or I've been duped, or that I'm being unrealistic, or whatever?
edited 9th Jun '16 2:09:07 PM by KilgoreTrout
Based on what?
EDIT: Look, as I recall from when I was posting in the Israel/Palestine thread, you don't believe that Israel is deserving of all the U.S. support it gets because on many occasions it has gone too far and used excessive force. Well, The Young Turks has actually called them on that shit, which is more than you can say for CNN. Or take Rachel Maddow. The only time I ever heard her talk about Israel was during the 2008-2009 attack on Gaza, where she was actually making excuses for them by saying that they were this tiny little country surrounded by people who hated them, etc, etc.
edited 9th Jun '16 2:22:28 PM by KilgoreTrout
![]()
![]()
![]()
They do all seem to be alternative media sources, and is an indication of the position they use approach different issues, so it is important to be aware of that.
Also, something thing that bothered about the racial criticisms of Sanders' campaign is some of it just seemed semantic. "Sanders does not appeal to black voters" is a true, if blanket, statement. But that can been read into two massively different ways, one saying black voters chose not to receive his message, the other saying Sanders chose not to send his message. A few too many people seem to jump to the latter, when I think the former is much more important.
edited 9th Jun '16 2:26:14 PM by Eschaton
Because to be brutally honest I'm real tired and a bit lazy and waiting for someone else to go back a dozen pages or so and find all the sources and proof.
We were actually talking about them not that long ago and wondering how they'd take Bernie's loss and him saying he'll support Clinton. Especially considering how much they hate her.
They've been building her up to be this great evil, it'll be interesting to see how they take their star candidate/savior announcing his support for her.
edited 9th Jun '16 2:32:31 PM by LeGarcon
Oh really when?![]()
You're demonstrating your own biases with that question.
TYT have a hate-on for Hillary for various reasons, but one of the signs of that is cherry-picking Republican propaganda and reporting it as factual, when really they're just borrowing a 25-year program of character assassination carried out by the right against the Clintons.
The simple fact is that none of the accusations against Hillary or her husband have ever been proven in a court of law, despite decades of investigations, countless millions of dollars spent, and more hearings of various sorts than you can shake a stick at.
At a certain point, one has to look towards the people who are fanning the smoke and screaming that there MUST BE a fire underneath it.
edited 9th Jun '16 2:38:10 PM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
This is exactly what I wanted to avoid, because there is no way I can have a conversation about politics with the guy who runs the place. The last time I tried, I got thumped. You can claim that was all on me. I disagree strongly.
EDIT: Hillary wrote this personally:
http://forward.com/opinion/national/324013/how-i-would-rebuild-ties-to-israel-and-benjamin-neta/
Nowhere does she mention oppression of Palestinians, or apartheid, or even criticize Netanyahu as even pro-Israel Democrats and media personalities who usually defend Israel have criticized him. (Particularly over the whole "You all need to go and vote for me because ARABS are voting!" thing.) She paints Israel and its citizens as the sole victims, and sees any action they take, no matter how bloody or excessive, as perfectly fine.
edited 9th Jun '16 2:41:02 PM by KilgoreTrout
![]()
You are the one who jumped in here, knowing that I participate in this topic (nor am I the only moderator who does). But regardless, your prior thump was for rudeness directed at a poster, so if that's how you're going to continue behaving, I see only one outcome.
Edit: Especially since your prior thump was over the Israel issue, and you continue to use distortion tactics regarding it, to go by that edit.
edited 9th Jun '16 2:43:57 PM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"![]()
Dude, I believe every damn thing I say. I do not argue in bad faith with the intent to deceive. If I tell you something, like I just told Fighteer & everybody else that Hillary was biased in favour of Israel and its current PM? It's because I believe that she is biased toward Israel and its current PM and because I have good bloody reason to believe it.
It kind of matters and I see it as relevant since the U.S. has very strong ties to them.
edited 9th Jun '16 2:44:31 PM by KilgoreTrout
You may not realize that your argument is in bad faith, but that just makes you ignorant. It doesn't make your argument any less fallacious. Now, you have one final chance to drop it.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"I'd still note that you are all overestimating how much TYT, as a whole, subscribes to "Never Hillary." One of them is openly "Bernie or Bust," and he's the one I, and several of them, strongly disagree with.
Acting like Sanders supporting Clinton is a logic bomb for them just doesn't play out, because they know what she's up against, and have noted there are important issues that would not be threatened by a Clinton presidency, such as women's rights.

Actually, Hillary's more popular with Democratic Jews because Sanders tends to be critical of Israeli policies towards the Palestinians.
"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"