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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

megarockman from The Sixth Borough (Experienced Trainee)
#125251: Jun 8th 2016 at 11:04:50 AM

As I understand it, the original blanket primary system was where a voter on primary day could pick and choose which candidates for which office they wanted to support from among the slate of candidates each party offered - e.g., a voter could pick a Democrat for senator and a Republican for governor. Though this allows even more options for the voter in their election choices, this system was declared unconstitutional in 2000 by the Supreme Court (California Democratic Party v. Jones) because it held this to be a violation of the parties' right of free association. The switch to the jungle primary system avoids this issue by making the party association irrelevant.

The damned queen and the relentless knight.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#125252: Jun 8th 2016 at 11:07:53 AM

[up][up]I agree, in general, though I think whether something is "liberal" or "conservative" should be treated as different from whether it can work the way people propose it.

It's why "Reality has a liberal bias" always annoyed me, even though I know what (most) people who are saying it mean. Reality doesn't have a bias ,only people do. It's part of the reason I stopped being able to tolerate Daily Kos.

edited 8th Jun '16 11:10:53 AM by LSBK

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#125253: Jun 8th 2016 at 11:09:01 AM

I honestly can't tell if he's had any success. His diehard fanboys and fangirls are prepared to take credit for every progressive position on Clinton's agenda, regardless of whether it was something she wanted to do before Sanders got into the race.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#125254: Jun 8th 2016 at 11:25:00 AM

[up][up] "Reality has a liberal bias" is so phrased because, throughout the 20th century, facts have lined up more with "liberal" — that is, Social Democrat — political positions than with "conservative" — that is, reactionary/movement — political positions. This is across the board on matters such as economic policy, gun control, reproductive health, LGBT rights, minority rights, taxation, climate science, and so forth.

This is not to say that reality somehow favors liberalism; it's that liberals, by and large, tend to pick positions that align better with scientific evidence. Of course, the left has its share of nitwits, such as the anti-vaxxers, the anti-GMO crowd, anti-free-traders/protectionists, and, on the fringes, crazies like Greenpeace and PETA.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#125255: Jun 8th 2016 at 11:30:47 AM

[up]I get that. Like I said, my problem is that a fair number of people at sites like Daily Kos, don't take it like that.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#125256: Jun 8th 2016 at 11:36:01 AM

Echo chambers are very real. It's all too human to take vindication of your choice of positions as evidence that you have some kind of inherent correctness and fail to perform due diligence in future choices. The basic psychology seems to be related to the self-aggrandizement that afflicts people who come into wealth: as a psychological defense, they convince themselves that their position is due to some inherent moral superiority instead of luck (or favoritism, or whatever).

"I have things other people don't, so I must deserve them."

When applied to the realm of politics, this can lead one to a belief in one's own infallibility that is in no way justified.

A perfect example of this is the radical turn towards freshwater/Chicagoan economics after the 1970s stagflation crisis. Neoclassical wonks had been trumpeting the impending death of America by hyperinflation due to monetary debasement for decades; that it kept failing to happen was irrelevant. When an inflation spike suddenly showed up, they crowed their triumph over their stopped-clock vindication, kicked the Keynesian/saltwater economists out of power, and proceeded to run the U.S. into the ground.

edited 8th Jun '16 11:40:17 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#125257: Jun 8th 2016 at 11:49:30 AM

I'm seeing a lot of Sanders supporters saying they are moving to Canada cause he lost. While most of them aren't serious they'd be in for a shock when they realize we aren't a revolutionary paradise up here. In fact we are probably one of the most moderate countries in the West, no far right or far left movements have gained any steam.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
GameGuruGG Vampire Hunter from Castlevania (Before Recorded History)
Vampire Hunter
#125258: Jun 8th 2016 at 11:59:07 AM

And quite frankly, the United States needs to go to the left if only to be more in line with reality. There is a difference between being sensibly progressive and, by extension, being sensibly conservative, and being unreasonably progressive and, by extension, unreasonably conservative. Currently, the Republican Party are being unreasonably conservative and dragging the country rightward due to it. The sensible positions are towards the left.

[up] You should not take anyone threatening to move to Canada because of the election seriously. Everyone in the United States threatens to move to Canada because their pet candidate loses.

Wizard Needs Food Badly
BlueNinja0 The Mod with the Migraine from Taking a left at Albuquerque Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Mod with the Migraine
#125259: Jun 8th 2016 at 11:59:08 AM

[up] They're idiots. They should move to Canada if Trump wins, not because Sanders lost the primary.

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#125260: Jun 8th 2016 at 12:00:16 PM

They'll be thoroughly disappointed. We haven't had a cult of personality politician here since Trudeau I. And of course we are currently under Trudeau II which means that, horror of horrors, we have a political dynasty, exactly the kind of thing they purport to hate. They'll also discover that "fight the man, stick it to the establishment" rhetoric doesn't get you that far here—even the NDP generally eschews that kind of language, and we're pretty far to the left of even Sanders.

flameboy21th The would-be novelist from California Since: Jan, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
The would-be novelist
#125261: Jun 8th 2016 at 12:00:34 PM

Cue the Great Wall of Canada to stop them Yankees.

Non Indicative Username
GameGuruGG Vampire Hunter from Castlevania (Before Recorded History)
Vampire Hunter
#125262: Jun 8th 2016 at 12:02:22 PM

[up][up][up] Being Canadian won't save you if Trump gets his hands on nuclear weapons.

edited 8th Jun '16 12:03:07 PM by GameGuruGG

Wizard Needs Food Badly
Bat178 Since: May, 2011
#125263: Jun 8th 2016 at 12:05:13 PM

[up] Then again, neither would being European, or Asian, or South American or African. Only possibly being Oceanian.

desdendelle Hooded Crow from Land of Milk and Honey (Sergeant) Relationship Status: Hiding
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#125265: Jun 8th 2016 at 12:07:05 PM

The Canadian party system is also far more elitist than the Democrats. Insurgent candidates don't get far here.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#125266: Jun 8th 2016 at 12:11:41 PM

And people who aren't a member of the party don't get to vote.

optimusjamie Since: Jun, 2010
#125267: Jun 8th 2016 at 12:14:54 PM

@Bat: I don't think even Martians are safe in that scenario.

Actually contributing to the thread: BBC: CIA agent expects to be extradited to Italy.

Direct all enquiries to Jamie B Good
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#125268: Jun 8th 2016 at 12:19:42 PM

If half the people who said they were moving to Canada in response to some slight actually did it; North America would probably tip over and capsize into the Arctic Sea.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#125269: Jun 8th 2016 at 12:28:52 PM

The people who will move away to Canada are one of the few positives of this election cycle.

Leviticus 19:34
AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#125270: Jun 8th 2016 at 12:38:20 PM

And then they will move back to the US once they realize Canada uses the metric system.[lol]

Inter arma enim silent leges
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#125271: Jun 8th 2016 at 12:40:19 PM

By the way am I the only one who, when I hear lefties calling for a revolution feels the need to point out that the Right Wing Militia Nuts have a lot more guns?

edited 8th Jun '16 12:40:35 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar

flameboy21th The would-be novelist from California Since: Jan, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
The would-be novelist
#125272: Jun 8th 2016 at 12:41:15 PM

[up][up]I should start moving to Canada ASAP.

Non Indicative Username
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#125273: Jun 8th 2016 at 12:43:23 PM

[up][up] I've mentioned that quite a few times, in fact. There's no guarantee that the far left would win in a putative revolution, particularly if the social order broke down completely and victory came to those with more guns.

edited 8th Jun '16 12:43:53 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#125274: Jun 8th 2016 at 12:44:44 PM

[up][up][up]No, and the Right Wing Nutters are probably more apt with theirs and a good amount of them doesn't see not being able to use a computer or iPhone because the power is out as a reason to panic.

edited 8th Jun '16 12:45:06 PM by AngelusNox

Inter arma enim silent leges
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#125275: Jun 8th 2016 at 12:47:17 PM

I think most left wingers calling for revolution are thinking of a very different kind of thing than the right wing militias, though, so guns generally don't enter into thinking about it in the same way. More rampant civil protest/voting in far left political outsiders than fighting against the government.

This isn't to say they're any more realistic or any less nuts, but they are thinking about revolution in very different ways.


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