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flameboy21th The would-be novelist from California Since: Jan, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
The would-be novelist
#125176: Jun 7th 2016 at 11:13:51 PM

As I say. Another person's evil does not make you good. Suppose Sanders is the Attention Whore egotistical guy, Hillary still has to do it in a civil way.

Non Indicative Username
vandro Shop Owner from The little shop that wasn't Since: Jul, 2009
Shop Owner
#125177: Jun 7th 2016 at 11:17:52 PM

How could she have stopped him from reaching his numbers to an extent of "never getting more than 10%"? Red Scare?

Iaculus Pronounced YAK-you-luss from England Since: May, 2010
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
#125178: Jun 7th 2016 at 11:17:56 PM

Honestly, that article seems to be making a fuss about fairly little. Remember that Sanders's Plan A was always influencing the Democratic presidential nomination in a leftward direction, with actually becoming president being a pleasant but unlikely possibility. He's made this explicit multiple times. Everything he's doing makes sense when you remember that his primary goal is to keep the pressure on the Democratic establishment and threaten them into giving solid concessions at the convention rather than immediately taking a rightward leap as soon as primary season is over.

Now, you could argue that's dangerous, but that really depends on how much (and in what direction) you believe a leftward slant would affect Democrat voting numbers by. In some ways, trying this when the opposition are apocalyptically self-destructing is the safest, most responsible option if you want to advance your political agenda. It's not like the Republicans can go after the Democrsts for their lack of party unity this cycle.

edited 7th Jun '16 11:20:51 PM by Iaculus

What's precedent ever done for us?
flameboy21th The would-be novelist from California Since: Jan, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
The would-be novelist
#125179: Jun 7th 2016 at 11:27:35 PM

There's a difference between "influencing the Democrats" and "whoever oppose me is corrupt."

Non Indicative Username
Iaculus Pronounced YAK-you-luss from England Since: May, 2010
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
#125180: Jun 7th 2016 at 11:35:10 PM

[up]That does, of course, depend on what you're trying to influence the party towards. If your starting point is 'the party has an unhealthily close relationship with big business at workers' expense, and I want to fix that', then... well.

Sanders's success was largely due to being a protest candidate perceived to be mostly outside the Washington machine. Protesters are generally angry about their chosen cause, otherwise they wouldn't be protesting.

What's precedent ever done for us?
Eschaton Since: Jul, 2010
#125181: Jun 7th 2016 at 11:35:28 PM

[up][up] And that, delineating the point between "providing expertise" and "maintaining self-interest" among the establishment, has been one of the fundamental hurdles the Sanders' campaign has simply not been able to overcome, try as they might.

edited 7th Jun '16 11:40:49 PM by Eschaton

Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#125182: Jun 7th 2016 at 11:45:40 PM

It helps to remember that Sanders represented people like most of us in this thread. For that reason alone, Clinton had to take him seriously - and I think she played it exactly right. Welcoming his challenge as a Worthy Opponent, debating him, and setting her own platform. Remember the "coronation" meme? I recall saying that I would vomit if it was another round of Clinton v. Bush - well, we're not seeing that, and Clinton has had to stake out an actually leftist position.

It's just that the Bernie campaign has stirred up some of the ugly side of the left - thankfully not the anti-vaxxers (I don't think...), but the guys who show that the left is just as capable of hate and rage as the right. Those are people that any leftist who wants to get anything done will have to find a way to work around (and they're a big reason for the left's fragmentation in Europe - see Life of Brian). That, and unfortunately, he exposed a lot of rot in the Democratic Party just in time for the election - Clinton was really prescient in realizing that she had to dissociate herself from DWS, because she's become a symbol of everything wrong, and there's a lot of state Democratic parties rioting over the superdelegates. (I was at Alaska's convention, and the chairman literally shut down the convention without a vote because people were trying to pass an anti-superdelegate platform.) Not something Clinton wants to have to carry to the polls.

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#125183: Jun 8th 2016 at 1:31:47 AM

The thing that bothers me about Sanders - and did long before New York - was that he's working off dubious mathematics and that I am generally inclined to agree with FF Shinra about the unsuitability of his foreign policy views.

In my mind, he was an useful tool to shift the party to the left but not really as a candidate per se.

Democrats Harris, Sanchez advance to California Senate election. Thanks to California's blanket primary system, two Democrats have ended up on the top spots and will advance to the general election. Thus, the 2016 California Senate election will between two Democratic women, not between a Democrat and a Republican. Latina vs. African American, as it were, so there is some advance for diversity as well.

Kirk: 'I cannot and will not support my party's nominee'. I agree, aside from all of Trump's "qualities" it'd be really difficult for him to win re-election in deep blue Illinois on a Trump backing.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#125184: Jun 8th 2016 at 2:42:40 AM

I was always willing to give the dubious math a pass because funding everything was a quixotic quest to begin with - right now, short term, we should be funding everything via the printing press anyway. But actually telling the public that debt doesn't matter sounds more insane than Sanders' proposals were.

I realize that my willingness to countenance outright lies from Sanders if they land in the right place is a bit hypocritical though.

edited 8th Jun '16 2:42:48 AM by Ramidel

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#125185: Jun 8th 2016 at 4:08:54 AM

Some reminders for people who don't think Trump is racist.

Also, it seems like Hillary has won California as well by a margin of about 13 percentage points.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
NoName999 Since: May, 2011
#125186: Jun 8th 2016 at 4:32:33 AM

I don't think people who think Trump isn't a racist comes here :P

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#125187: Jun 8th 2016 at 4:49:57 AM

You never know.

Anyways...oh for God's sake, sanders. What the hell are you doing now?

Ogodei Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers from The front lines Since: Jan, 2011
Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers
#125188: Jun 8th 2016 at 5:35:45 AM

Let's hope a concession is forthcoming today. Any arguments he makes this point forward are just going to be increasingly shrill and asinine and distract the Democrats as Trump rampages freely on the other side.

CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#125189: Jun 8th 2016 at 5:50:37 AM

I don't think he's going to be conceding. He's a 75-year old man who has never been particularly liked in the rest of his political career, and this was his one chance to become President. He'll try to make the Democrats pay for ignoring him, then go back to his echo chamber where he's America's one true savior. At this point, he's too drunk on his own hype.

edited 8th Jun '16 5:51:18 AM by CrimsonZephyr

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#125190: Jun 8th 2016 at 5:54:45 AM

Well congrats to Clinton, it was a long campaign but she won it fair and square, she won it without sinking to red scare levels of absurdity and possible destroying her reputation with the left, congratulations.

Push come to shove the system worked, there was a race, two candidates entered and the votes decided which one they liked best, job well done all round, now for cake.

Oh and as we had enough debate about Iraq and Syria while I was gone, jut a point of fact, the US campaign against ISIS is not a purely air one, it's got a air power, special forces, local ground forces, sanctions on ISIS allies, economic spending on anti-ISIS allies, aid to anti-ISIS groups and diplomatic pressure on US allies who are supporting ISIS either deliberatly or via omission.

Yes a pure air campaign wouldn't work, that's why the US isn't doing a pure air campaign.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#125191: Jun 8th 2016 at 6:13:41 AM

two candidates entered
Poor Martin O'Malley, Jim Webb, and Lincoln Chafee...

edited 8th Jun '16 6:13:53 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
DrDougsh Since: Jan, 2001
#125192: Jun 8th 2016 at 6:25:21 AM

And Lawrence Lessig.

edited 8th Jun '16 6:25:47 AM by DrDougsh

Xopher001 Since: Jul, 2012
#125193: Jun 8th 2016 at 6:26:42 AM

I can't say I'm not dissapointed that Clinton has been nominated, especially since that was what everyone was predicting since the begining. Plus some of her policies regarding the PATRIOT act, 1994 crime bill, and the Iraq War. But I'm still gonna vote for her, if only to make sure Trump doesn't win

PotatoesRock Since: Oct, 2012
#125194: Jun 8th 2016 at 6:27:20 AM

(Politico) Clinton launches ‘Republicans Against Trump’ campaign: Hillary Clinton is wasting no time trying to woo Republicans turned off by Donald Trump now that she’s the presumptive Democratic nominee, as her campaign has launched a new website aimed at courting disaffected GOP voters.

(MSNBC) Donald Trump does not have a campaign

Basically Trump has no actual infrastructure:

  • No media/communication team in his campaign
  • He plans to use Rallies over GOTV tactics
  • Trump doesn't believe in Data and Analytics and is stubbornly refusing to hire anyone for such a division (or if he does, he's slow to do so)
  • No rapid response director to help spin his crazy comments
  • He has no coherent message coming from his VERY limited surrogate pool.
  • Trump is bafflingly being soft on Clinton

His own staff says if Trump refuses or fails to assemble a media/communications team by the Republican National Conentin, his campaign is toast for November.

Jeet Heer of the New Republic notes that Trump is likely to be a continuing disaster until 2020 for the GOP

Basically he's going to be like Palin. Even if he loses, he's still going to be the face of the GOP wise bearded sage Sunday Morning Talk Shows and the go-to guy for the media for his opinions on everything related to GOP politics. And he may well be the voice of the GOP's most right wing elements for the next decade or two.

Let's hope a concession is forthcoming today. Any arguments he makes this point forward are just going to be increasingly shrill and asinine and distract the Democrats as Trump rampages freely on the other side.
He's more or less said he won't concede until the roll call at the convention chooses Hillary over him.

edited 8th Jun '16 6:28:54 AM by PotatoesRock

Xopher001 Since: Jul, 2012
#125195: Jun 8th 2016 at 6:28:53 AM

Trump doesn't believe in Data or Analytics? No wonder so many of his business enterprises flop tongue

PotatoesRock Since: Oct, 2012
#125196: Jun 8th 2016 at 6:29:43 AM

He's basically said GOTV data analytics is bullshit wizard voodoo shark magic and all he needs is Trump Rallies (TM).

Superdark33 The dark Mage of the playground from Playgrounds and Adventures Since: Jan, 2013 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
The dark Mage of the playground
#125197: Jun 8th 2016 at 6:31:31 AM

Sanders made a voice heared, a voice that until now was only known as some mad ramblings of White High-Middle-Class Liberal Arts College Graduates Who May Or May Not be High Right Now and is basically 40% the dem voterbase.

Which is good cos it balances out all the Republicans who fled from Trump to become DIN Os.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#125198: Jun 8th 2016 at 6:32:02 AM

Trump has a very good brain. He hires the best people, just the best. He knows how to make decisions, to make deals. He doesn't need data; he goes with his gut, which is a very good gut, with the best bacteria...

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
PotatoesRock Since: Oct, 2012
#125200: Jun 8th 2016 at 6:36:18 AM

[up][up]evil grin[awesome]

Sanders made a voice heared, a voice that until now was only known as some mad ramblings of White High-Middle-Class Liberal Arts College Graduates Who May Or May Not be High Right Now
Sigh. Can we stop classifying Sanders' voters as all white liberals and white college students.

The man still majority won every below 35~40 ethnic group, that speaks to something about his political views resonating with young voters.

(Though again, a fair portion of that group that voted for him, I will concede, is the White Liberal batch that chases the Sanders/Howard Deans)

edited 8th Jun '16 6:37:41 AM by PotatoesRock


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