TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

The General US Politics Thread

Go To

Nov 2023 Mod notice:


There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.

If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines before posting here.

Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.

If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules when posting here.


In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.

Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#124751: Jun 5th 2016 at 4:15:24 PM

Capsase, do you actually knew any politicians personally? Do you know anyone who knows any?

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#124752: Jun 5th 2016 at 4:15:54 PM

@Protagonist- That's a good way of putting it.

But something I think that Trump really underscored for me is that while most politicians have more than their fair share of ambition, it's anomalous to have someone seeking power for reasons other than to do good (again, with mileage varying as to what good means).

That being said, I will acknowledge that depending on the policy/action, good intentions can become irrelevant. For instance, Cruz wanting to monitor Muslim Americans and carpet bomb the Middle East for poorly justified but sincerely believed reasons is not much better than Trump wanting to do those things For the Evulz.

edited 5th Jun '16 4:20:04 PM by Hodor2

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#124753: Jun 5th 2016 at 4:33:53 PM

@Silasw: Depends on what you mean by personally. On the local level yes, a few, and they're decent people, and I have met one relatively important politician face to face. Who happens to be facing corruption charges right now.

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#124754: Jun 5th 2016 at 4:41:32 PM

Yet despite knowing them you still say that "There isn't a politician in the world whose a good person."?

That's pretty dark. Either way, if you want to insult people you know if you're personal life that's not our business,s but please stop insulting members of the forum, it's not nice.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#124755: Jun 5th 2016 at 4:44:13 PM

[up] I excluded local level politicians from my statement however, insofar as such a person might very well never run into the sort of dilemma where there is no outcome that is not morally repugnant, and if they do, resigning is a viable option.

edited 5th Jun '16 4:45:11 PM by CaptainCapsase

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
LogoP Party Crasher from the Land of Deep Blue Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: You can be my wingman any time
Party Crasher
#124757: Jun 5th 2016 at 4:57:19 PM

So are the PR results in yet? Because from what I hear from the polls Bernie got whooped pretty bad.

edited 5th Jun '16 4:57:45 PM by LogoP

It is sometimes an appropriate response to reality to go insane.
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#124758: Jun 5th 2016 at 4:58:55 PM

[up] Sounds about right.

[up][up] Listen, I won't argue that the decisions of the upper echelons of society aren't sometimes necessary, but I don't think that really absolves someone of their actions, it just explains them. So yes, I will maintain that people with significant power are almost always bad people. No matter what way you slice it, Obama is responsible for thousands upon thousands of deaths. I don't think that's something that can ever be called just or right. Perhaps its necessary, but I cannot in good conscious claim it's a good thing that thousands of lives have been ended. Beyond a certain scale, it's effectively impossible for any decision to be made without harming anyone.

edited 5th Jun '16 5:16:59 PM by CaptainCapsase

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#124759: Jun 5th 2016 at 5:24:32 PM

I excluded local level politicians from my statement however

Not in the statement you didn't. Your later backtracking just sounds like when my grandma tried to exclude my brother's girlfriend from her bigoted statements about immigrants.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#124760: Jun 5th 2016 at 5:27:23 PM

[up] Yes I did; that's what I meant by "significant power"; people whose decisions affect the lives of millions of people. On that scale, it's inevitable that a person's decisions will cause significant suffering. That suffering might be necessary, but I do not believe it is right.

ILoveDogs Since: May, 2010
#124761: Jun 5th 2016 at 5:30:59 PM

Then what is the alternative?

pwiegle Cape Malleum Majorem from Nowhere Special Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Cape Malleum Majorem
#124762: Jun 5th 2016 at 5:31:18 PM

[up][up][up][up]So, precisely at what point does a benign politician suddenly become an inherently bad person according to you? (Don't bother to answer that; it was a rhetorical question.)

edited 5th Jun '16 5:31:39 PM by pwiegle

This Space Intentionally Left Blank.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#124763: Jun 5th 2016 at 5:31:51 PM

[up][up][up]That just makes it sound like you have impossible standards.

edited 5th Jun '16 5:32:22 PM by LSBK

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#124764: Jun 5th 2016 at 5:34:07 PM

@ILoveDogs: There isn't one.

[up] I'm distinguishing between something being right, and something being necessary. I will support actions in the latter category, but I won't claim a moral high-ground.

edited 5th Jun '16 5:39:05 PM by CaptainCapsase

storyyeller More like giant cherries from Appleloosa Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: RelationshipOutOfBoundsException: 1
More like giant cherries
#124765: Jun 5th 2016 at 5:40:19 PM

Obama is responsible for thousands upon thousands of deaths. I don't think that's something that can ever be called just or right. Perhaps its necessary, but I cannot in good conscious claim it's a good thing that thousands of lives have been ended. Beyond a certain scale, it's effectively impossible for any decision to be made without harming anyone.

When you're at that level, people die no matter what you do. All you can do is to try your best. That doesn't mean you're a bad person.

Is any surgeon who has ever had a single patient die a bad person?

Blind Final Fantasy 6 Let's Play
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#124766: Jun 5th 2016 at 5:45:07 PM

[up] The difference here is that the deaths of thousands was the desired outcome of the decision maker. Moreover, in the case of the surgeon, the patient is capable of consenting to the risk of the operation; even the most pluralistic form of democracy possible in the modern world cannot say the same.

edited 5th Jun '16 5:46:38 PM by CaptainCapsase

LogoP Party Crasher from the Land of Deep Blue Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: You can be my wingman any time
Party Crasher
#124767: Jun 5th 2016 at 5:54:30 PM

Honestly, I think Obama tried his best, given the circumstances. He dodged a bullet in Syria and the whole Libya affair could have been a lot, a lot more worse than it ended up being.

Plus, he started pulling troops out of Iraq, so there's that.

It is sometimes an appropriate response to reality to go insane.
Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#124768: Jun 5th 2016 at 5:57:45 PM

In reality, the option is sometimes "bad" or "worse". Choosing "bad" doesn't make you a bad person, it means you wanted the better option that hurts less. It's in fact the thing making you the better person.

Not everything is good in reality. Thus, what you're asking for is outright impossible at this point and time. Maybe a very long time from now, pretty much after everyone on this forum has passed on with their lives(that's how long we're talking), peace and no suffering could be achievable. But human nature is far more fickle than that.

Regardless, your stance is completely unfeasible. It's a case where you should just let it go and move on.

Shadow?
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#124769: Jun 5th 2016 at 5:59:21 PM

Well, I'm not a huge fan of Obama by any means (we have our many disagreements, I'm a lot more right leaning than him), but keep in mind that good politicians can and do save lives.

Leviticus 19:34
RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#124770: Jun 5th 2016 at 6:01:23 PM

Even if you insist that a choice can be both necessary but immoral, it doesn't follow that performing a bad action necessarily makes you a bad person.

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#124771: Jun 5th 2016 at 6:04:51 PM

[up] Not being a good person doesn't by default make you a bad person. That's my position. For all practical purposes my stance is similar to yours, the difference being that I disagree with the notion that there is such thing as a moral high ground on a sufficiently large scale, just a battle of mutually exclusive agendas, which will be harmful to different groups of people if realized.

edited 5th Jun '16 6:13:57 PM by CaptainCapsase

Demonic_Braeburn Yankee Doodle Dandy from Defective California Since: Jan, 2016
Yankee Doodle Dandy
#124772: Jun 5th 2016 at 6:33:35 PM

David French: ‘I’m not running for president’.

And the search continues!

Any group who acts like morons ironically will eventually find itself swamped by morons who think themselves to be in good company.
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#124773: Jun 5th 2016 at 7:12:21 PM

Yeah I think I'm done engaging in discussion about how all of X group are terrible people regardless of if they do the best they can in the situations they find themselves in. Such discussions are in no way constructive and stink of flame bait and trolling.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#124774: Jun 5th 2016 at 8:25:38 PM

Ah, the Obama the mass murderer narrative. Straight out of Republican playbooks that one. Of course what's hysterical about this is that it means any politician Caspase might support, including good old Sanders, will inevitably become corrupt and evil once they reach sufficient heights.

Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#124775: Jun 5th 2016 at 8:31:06 PM

[up]That's out of the Republican Party Handbook? I've listened to self-identified Tea Partiers who wouldn't call him a mass murderer.

Leviticus 19:34

Total posts: 417,856
Top