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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#124726: Jun 5th 2016 at 2:37:50 PM

West is not someone I'd entrust foreign relations with, that's for sure. If he's an anti-drone wonk as I remember.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#124727: Jun 5th 2016 at 2:38:49 PM

[up]This is a pretty good article, written by a former friend and protege of West's.

edited 5th Jun '16 2:39:24 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#124728: Jun 5th 2016 at 2:38:52 PM

[up][up][up] What other options were there, of notable people who supported Sanders who are registered democrats?

edited 5th Jun '16 2:40:19 PM by CaptainCapsase

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#124729: Jun 5th 2016 at 2:40:06 PM

[up]If Sanders couldn't find somebody other than a rabid, borderline racist who has done everything but call Obama an Oreo, that is Sanders' fault for surrounding himself with people like that. Shall I shed a tear?

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#124730: Jun 5th 2016 at 2:45:10 PM

[up] Insisting on ideological purity gets you nowhere, as you've insisted. Given the size of the committee (~40 people), Sanders' appointee is nothing more than a symbolic gesture, West effectively has no say on the actual platform, something he's been rather vocally pointing out. Sanders associates with rabid critics of Obama who bought into the who "Obama is the messiah" thing. Clinton surrounds herself with actual mass murderers like Kissinger other cold-war era foreign policy experts.

There isn't a politician in the world whose a good person. Up to and including each and every one of your personal political sweethearts.

edited 5th Jun '16 2:53:20 PM by CaptainCapsase

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#124731: Jun 5th 2016 at 2:59:04 PM

Luckily I don't have any personal political sweethearts, thanks all the same. These attempts at reading my mind are getting old. As to the notion that all politicians are innately bad people—I'll be sure to pass that along to the former math teacher at my school who ran for office last year.

Anyway, your Kissinger comparison fails, because Clinton hasn't appointed Kissinger to the platform committee. Or to any official post that I'm aware of. Nor has she, for that matter, acted like a Kissinger protege in any meaningful way. At no point in her time as Secretary of State did she act like Henry Kissinger, despite the accusations of some on the radical left. If she had, the USA would have set up a few more Latin American, African, and Middle Eastern dictatorships by now. Citing Henry Kissinger as an influence is old hat at this point, due to his depressingly high approval ratings from some foreign policy wonks. It disgusts me that that is the case, but that is sadly the reality. When Clinton gives him a job, you can complain about it in greater detail.

West having little influence on the committee doesn't change the fact that it's giving a high-profile position to a deeply obnoxious guy whose criticism of Obama has descended into the racist. Sanders could have appointed people with real ideas. He didn't.

edited 5th Jun '16 3:00:22 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#124732: Jun 5th 2016 at 3:00:47 PM

Who else did Sanders appoint?

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#124733: Jun 5th 2016 at 3:01:03 PM

edit: I need to look into this more.

[up] Keith Ellison and Bill McKibben. All of his appointees are likely going to get blacklisted by the DNC, which is probably the reason for West; he's already blacklisted.

edited 5th Jun '16 3:05:05 PM by CaptainCapsase

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#124734: Jun 5th 2016 at 3:07:21 PM

See Keith Ellison's not a bad choice.

Sidenote but either Sanders won an important concession from the DNC when he got to appoint people to the platform committee, or it is totally meaningless and we don't need to be concerned about West's appointment. Can't be both.

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#124735: Jun 5th 2016 at 3:08:20 PM

[up] Sanders' appointees are still a minority, it's 3 out of 15. Clinton gets 6 and the DNC gets the remaining 6. It's a concession, but so such a great concession that Sanders' appointees will be dictating the party's agenda.

edited 5th Jun '16 3:11:52 PM by CaptainCapsase

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#124736: Jun 5th 2016 at 3:09:56 PM

Well, not having DWS appointing the platfrom com may be a good thing by itself if all the complaints about her are true. Wonder who Clinton did appoint, thinking of it...

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#124737: Jun 5th 2016 at 3:10:52 PM

[up][up]And so I reiterate: is Sanders getting to appoint nominees an important concession, as you previously stated, or is it meaningless as you have also previously stated. Because it ain't both.

TotemicHero No longer a forum herald from the next level Since: Dec, 2009
No longer a forum herald
#124738: Jun 5th 2016 at 3:13:23 PM

The Puerto Rico primary has kicked off, and it looks like Sanders is losing by a large margin.

Expergiscēre cras, medior quam hodie. (Awaken tomorrow, better than today.)
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#124739: Jun 5th 2016 at 3:15:05 PM

Um, it's actually a caucus...

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#124740: Jun 5th 2016 at 3:16:01 PM

"There isn't a politician in the world whose a good person"

I don't know how to respond to this tautology.

I'd tend to think the exact opposite, because people generally go into politics out of a desire to do good (whatever they consider to be good) and disagreements about policy =/ not being a good person.

Not to mention that this is a democratic republic (going off of my post from a few pages back), so we are the politicians. Or to put it another way, while I'm not completely sure whether or not Bernie Sanders is a good person (although I'd lean toward Yes as I would for Hilary Clinton), it's not like he had some quality as a community organizer that he lost when he became a Mayor or Senator.

I'd certainly consider President Obama to be a good person. I mean you could certainly have a political discussion about Just War and whether one can be a good person and be responsible for authorizing military actions/killing, but that's rather more complex than "Politicians Are Bad, Amirite?".

edited 5th Jun '16 3:19:06 PM by Hodor2

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#124742: Jun 5th 2016 at 3:20:26 PM

I'd argue that Trump is a bad person, though.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
TotemicHero No longer a forum herald from the next level Since: Dec, 2009
No longer a forum herald
#124743: Jun 5th 2016 at 3:21:30 PM

@Septimus: Blame it on the major news networks, who are all calling it a primary. (I should've fact checked, but come on, you news guys...)

Expergiscēre cras, medior quam hodie. (Awaken tomorrow, better than today.)
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#124744: Jun 5th 2016 at 3:23:22 PM

[up][up] Oh, most definitely. He's the exception that proves the rule.

What's interesting with him though, is that although he at least seems like a much worse person ever since going into politics, one of his issues is that he lacks the public service intentions of most politicians and is instead self-interested, like a businessman.

edited 5th Jun '16 3:26:49 PM by Hodor2

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#124745: Jun 5th 2016 at 3:24:26 PM

There isn't a politician in the world whose a good person.

How about no.

Fun fact, we have people on this forum who've run for political office, I know of at least one and I suspect there are more, so how about you take your throwing personal insults at members of this forum and go away?

Edit:

Insisting on ideological purity gets you nowhere,

Agreed, so why insist on Sanders appointing a supporter of his?

edited 5th Jun '16 3:35:34 PM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#124747: Jun 5th 2016 at 3:50:49 PM

Every single politician has done something stupid/immoral/questionable/offensive/whatever in their life. This happens not because they're politicians but because they're people. Some are worse than others but a large number do have some desire to help people even if it's partially motivated by self interest.

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#124748: Jun 5th 2016 at 3:56:10 PM

@Hod: That's what people claim of course, and for people at the local level, I'd almost be willing to buy that, but I've long since come to the conclusion that it's impossible for a person to acquire significant power without becoming a monster in the progress. Which is precisely why I have absolutely no interest in having it.

edited 5th Jun '16 3:58:03 PM by CaptainCapsase

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#124749: Jun 5th 2016 at 3:59:08 PM

[up]Let's get something straight. Being pragmatic and being a monster are not the same thing. Obama has done some questionable things but I genuinely believe that the information he has available to him convinced him that those decisions were right. This is true for many politicians.

Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#124750: Jun 5th 2016 at 4:12:16 PM

The thing is that, while all powerful people inevitably do something terrible, it isn't because power corrupts per say. It's just that power magnifies any mistakes they make. In addition, it also magnifies the good decisions, as well.

Leviticus 19:34

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