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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#124626: Jun 4th 2016 at 6:13:06 PM

[up] Ambar, by objective metrics, Sanders met or exceeding expectations in terms of his legislative effectiveness throughout his entire tenure in the house of representatives.

About half of which was under a GOP President. Just because he barely passed any bills, doesn't mean he didn't get stuff done; he was number one in terms of roll-call amendments passed while the GOP controlled congress, and is up there in terms of successful amendments to bills across all of congress, he's 14th, which is something like 90th percentile considering congress numbers in the hundreds.

edited 4th Jun '16 6:23:51 PM by CaptainCapsase

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#124627: Jun 4th 2016 at 6:41:41 PM

Huge difference between adjusting bills and getting a socialist agenda passed when Congress is dominated by reactionaries, conservatives, and moderate liberals.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#124628: Jun 4th 2016 at 6:44:48 PM

[up] Yes, but he wasn't an ineffective legislator, despite what Clinton claimed, even (in fact especially) with a GOP dominated congress. Clinton herself only had 3 bills to her name, and cosponsored about the same number of bills per year as Sanders did.

edited 4th Jun '16 6:47:57 PM by CaptainCapsase

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#124629: Jun 4th 2016 at 6:51:30 PM

And now Sanders is burning his Democratic connections, while the Republicans wouldn't let previous deals get the way of stonewalling a hypothetical (by that I mean Clinton gets charged or dies between now and the convention, knock on wood) Sanders White House.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
tricksterson Never Trust from Behind you with an icepick Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Never Trust
#124630: Jun 4th 2016 at 6:56:06 PM

@Captain Capsase: Hilary's latest statement in favor of a public option wasn't "years ago", it was in May.

Trump delenda est
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#124631: Jun 4th 2016 at 7:09:33 PM

[up][up] Clinton was still in the race at this point in 2008, and about half of her voters when polled say they wouldn't vote for Obama; I fully expect him to concede after the last primary.

ILoveDogs Since: May, 2010
#124632: Jun 4th 2016 at 7:12:12 PM

Why won't he concede earlier? He must realize that there's no way he's going to get all of those superdelegates to change their minds, and he must also know that this horse race narrative is harmful for Clinton.

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#124633: Jun 4th 2016 at 7:13:12 PM

If/when he does concede I can't wait to see how the craziest of his fans try to spin it. It should be entertaining. I also want to see if groups like TYT get their acts together or if they go full fringe and advocate voting for the Green Party or something.

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#124634: Jun 4th 2016 at 7:13:55 PM

[up][up] Principle mostly, if I had to guess; he campaigned to the very end in his early runs for various offices.

edited 4th Jun '16 7:14:03 PM by CaptainCapsase

ILoveDogs Since: May, 2010
#124635: Jun 4th 2016 at 7:15:09 PM

[up][up] I heard that Cenk will grit his teeth and vote for Clinton if it comes to that, for what it's worth. Of course, if Bernie endorses Stein...

[up] Perhaps he should have learned to take a loss better before running for president.

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#124636: Jun 4th 2016 at 7:19:29 PM

Under normal circumstances I wouldn't mind him staying in, but with some of his delegates—not just supporters, but delegates—threatening to be idiots at the convention I wish he'd bow out. Or at least tell them he doesn't want them to start anything stupid.

I'll note that I wouldn't mind his trying to go after the superdelegates wouldn't bother me so much if he and some of his top advisors hadn't previously denounced it as undemocratic. You can't have it both ways.

edited 4th Jun '16 7:21:26 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#124637: Jun 4th 2016 at 7:28:25 PM

It's complaining about the pre-established rules until it becomes evident that you might need said rules to get what you want.

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#124638: Jun 4th 2016 at 8:01:48 PM

Exactly. And that drives me up the wall. Play by the rules if you want. Criticize the rules if you want. But don't criticize them, and then start abusing them when things don't work out for you.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#124639: Jun 4th 2016 at 8:13:37 PM

I haven't been watching Full Frontal With Samantha Bee but her mocking the whole Nevada convention fiasco and claims of Sanders being persecuted was hilarious.

edited 4th Jun '16 8:14:09 PM by LSBK

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#124640: Jun 4th 2016 at 8:14:54 PM

Sanders staying in till the last vote is cast makes sense from a perspective of trying to build a network of delegates who want a more left-wing party platform.

He should probably drop out once Clinton has 2026 pledged delegates, but if he simply sticks around till the last primary votes are cast I can understand it.

As for superdelegates, they do need fixing, they need to have them not be in any way stated to be connected to states, if need be it needs to be stated explicitly in the rules that super delegates are individuals who are in no way connected to any state. Don't list the delegates from a state as X pledged and X super, just list all the supers as non-state delegates in their own category.

Oh and I'd take the "Sanders should get delegates from states he won" if he'd told his supper delegates in Clinton won states to back Clinton. If he wants to change the rules he can lead by example.

If/when he does concede I can't wait to see how the craziest of his fans try to spin it.

It is going to be fun. They'll explode, it's going to be "What happened to Hope and Change" times a thousand. The rage at Obama for being a center-left politican who didn't fix everything overnight is going to be nothing compared to the rage at Sanders when he becomes a new-liberal shill and endorses Clinton.

edited 4th Jun '16 8:18:06 PM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#124641: Jun 4th 2016 at 9:36:49 PM

Anyway, considering Trump was making veiled threats of riots at the RNC, I can totally imagine outright electoral violence erupting in certain states. That's really the only scenario in which I can imagine him winning, and it would be all too in line with the proto-fascism in his movement.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#124643: Jun 5th 2016 at 7:50:28 AM

He's not wrong but it has nothing to do with being a white guy.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#124645: Jun 5th 2016 at 8:32:53 AM

Hillary Clinton has won the popular vote in the 2016 primary by a larger margin than Barack Obama won it in 2008. Whatever you think of the superdelegate system, it did not decide the outcome of this race.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#124646: Jun 5th 2016 at 8:34:30 AM

[up] Yes, but the noise made by Sanders' camp may very well enable some serious reforms in the primary system. That's a good thing in my book.

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#124647: Jun 5th 2016 at 8:37:13 AM

If I'm the DNC, I tell Sanders that we'll ditch the superdelegates when he agrees that caucuses are just as undemocratic and promises not to make a fuss about us ditching them as well.

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#124648: Jun 5th 2016 at 8:37:14 AM

John Oliver spoke about this, right now is the worst time to fix the problems with the system, but right now is also the only time anyone cares about the problems, even though the problems have not actually had a serious effect on this race.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#124649: Jun 5th 2016 at 8:43:09 AM

Convenient little chart. Can't remember if anyone posted it before.

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#124650: Jun 5th 2016 at 8:44:08 AM

The DNC cannot ditch caucuses by itself, unfortunately (and has any candidate supported/opposed that idea yet?) - these are decided by state law. Only way for the DNC to force anything would be by banning delegates coming from non-rules compliant states from the convention, as did happen in 2008. I am fine with ditching caucuses otherwise, they seem to be messy and lead to weird delegate allocation.

Also, from one of Brae's links: Trump Loves the Military, But Guess Who Got Their Donations? (technically, "DOD employees").

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

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