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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#124001: May 29th 2016 at 3:05:57 PM

[up] Id argue it's also a wonderful example of how the the ruling class of America uses identity politics to redirect the anger of the lower class towards the state into racial tensions which have no substantial effects on the lifestyle of the ruling class. "Divide and conquer" is a strategy that has never ceased to be effective, and probably never will.

edited 29th May '16 3:08:31 PM by CaptainCapsase

Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
#124002: May 29th 2016 at 3:12:42 PM

[up]x4 Trump has been building an international reputation of being absurdly gullible and way behind the times (his thing about Japan which would have made more sense in the 80s) in recent months. He would probably be really easy to manipulate if you don't care about how things would turn out in the US.

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#124003: May 29th 2016 at 3:13:11 PM

Damn, Frank and Sanders really do hate each other.

The international fear of Trump, at least among America's allies, stems from the fear that he will start trade wars left and right.

And maybe Canada and Mexico are worried about millions of refugees stemming across their borders.tongue

edited 29th May '16 3:14:16 PM by Rationalinsanity

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#124004: May 29th 2016 at 3:17:41 PM

[up] Given his past, it would be more likely he'd just sue people. A lot. Over and over again.

smokeycut Since: Mar, 2013
#124005: May 29th 2016 at 3:29:12 PM

Clinton outlines plans for LGBT Americans.

All good ideas, and hopefully she can make at least a few of them happen.

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#124006: May 29th 2016 at 3:31:04 PM

[up] Considering how much of a fuss happened over bathrooms and gay marriage, I have to wonder how much a fuss that's going to cause.

TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#124007: May 29th 2016 at 3:39:35 PM

Let em fuss.

The conservatives don't realize that all their whining does is just makes the issue fester faster on the side of progressives.

New Survey coming this weekend!
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#124008: May 29th 2016 at 3:53:44 PM

I find it interesting that Frank pretty much denies Sanders Jewishness in that statement, Sanders is an old white man, not an old white Jewish man, because add it'll that Sanders is himself a minority would undermine Frank's position.

edited 29th May '16 3:59:40 PM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#124009: May 29th 2016 at 3:54:57 PM

[up] The stereotypical tumblr response is "Jews (and east Asians) don't count as minorities because they aren't oppressed." Which is blatantly wrong on both assertions, but I see it far too often.

edited 29th May '16 3:55:42 PM by CaptainCapsase

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#124010: May 29th 2016 at 3:57:11 PM

I thought that was kind of odd too, especially because Frank himself is Jewish. Although Sanders doesn't really seem to identify as Jewish- he has this weird thing where he'll refer to his family as being Polish immigrants which I've never seen any Ashkenazi Jewish person do previously.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#124011: May 29th 2016 at 3:58:59 PM

[up][up]That's the stereotypical Tumblr response? Weird.

ILoveDogs Since: May, 2010
#124012: May 29th 2016 at 3:59:25 PM

[up][up][up] I spend a lot of time on Tumblr, and I've never seen that. I think there's plenty of agreement that Jewish people are oppressed.

edited 29th May '16 3:59:34 PM by ILoveDogs

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#124013: May 29th 2016 at 4:00:54 PM

Thing is even that doesn't make sense, as Frnak notes the progressiveness of having a Jewish women in charge as a good mark for the Dems, but Sanders somehow doesn't count as a Jew? Let me guess, he's a race traitor or something.

edited 29th May '16 4:01:15 PM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#124014: May 29th 2016 at 4:01:43 PM

I think it has more to do with Frank not considering Sanders a real Democrat than anything else.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#124015: May 29th 2016 at 4:03:43 PM

He's welcome to his opinion on that and he'd have a fair argument about it, but Sanders not being a real Democrat doesn't mean he's not a real Jew.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#124016: May 29th 2016 at 4:04:34 PM

It's two men with a grudge against each other. I don't think honesty will factor in there much.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#124017: May 29th 2016 at 4:04:58 PM

I've never gotten the impression that being Jewish is particularly important to Sanders. Maybe someone else could enlighten me if I'm wrong.

@Silaw, assuming he considers him a "race traitor" kind of reflects badly on you, I think, even though I get your point.

[up]But also that.

edited 29th May '16 4:06:49 PM by LSBK

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#124018: May 29th 2016 at 4:08:57 PM

@LSBK: It's something that cropped up fairly recently within particular circles of tumblr; some people arbitrarily decided that, since they don't win the oppression Olympics, Jews and Asians don't count as minorities in the United States. I added the stereotypical part to emphasize the fact that this is not really representative of the reality of the site, and even on tumblr itself that kind of attitude is generally met with ridicule.

edited 29th May '16 4:14:03 PM by CaptainCapsase

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#124019: May 29th 2016 at 4:08:58 PM

It's a jump sure but it's a jump based off of how he touted the Dems including Jewish people as a sign of progressiveness but then referred to Sanders only as a white guy, making no reference to him being Jewish. Which means either he doesn't consider Sanders Jewish or doesn't see him as a 'legitimate' Jewish, neigh of which come across as very progressive.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#124020: May 29th 2016 at 4:13:24 PM

[up][up]As far as representation goes Jews and Asians get the short end of the stick pretty often with both parties, so it cropping up with the "Oppression Olympics" isn't particularly surprising to me.

I still don't think that's what people would consider a stereotypical response on Tumblr, but I don't have a particularly good view of the site either so...

smokeycut Since: Mar, 2013
#124021: May 29th 2016 at 4:14:13 PM

Not supporting any specific side here, but there's something I feel should be noted.

Jewishness is complicated. Sometimes it's visible (nose shape being one feature lots of people notice, and same for hair), sometimes it's not. I'm visibly Jewish, but none of my siblings are. Plus, Jewishness isn't quite the same as being a person of color, but it's not the same as being a regular white person. It's at this weird point between the two.

As a result, different people will say Sanders is just another white guy, while others will say he's not.

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#124022: May 29th 2016 at 4:24:26 PM

I'd also add that while I admit this is somewhat unfair on my part (since like Frank I'm coming from this as both a Jewish American and a Jewish American who doesn't like Sanders)- but my impression is that Sanders considers himself "just another white guy" and either doesn't have any great connection to Judaism (including simply the cultural kind).

Like if you look at The Other Wiki regarding both Frank and Sanders, neither is at all observant and Sanders calls himself a cultural Jew, but it's pretty clear that Frank has a connection to the religion and culture that Sanders just doesn't. Oddly, Sanders did live in Israel on a Kibbutz, but that seems to have been for Socialist reasons more than religious ones, and he doesn't seem to ever mention it.

NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#124023: May 29th 2016 at 4:31:17 PM

It's a jump sure but it's a jump based off of how he touted the Dems including Jewish people as a sign of progressiveness but then referred to Sanders only as a white guy, making no reference to him being Jewish. Which means either he doesn't consider Sanders Jewish or doesn't see him as a 'legitimate' Jewish, neigh of which come across as very progressive.
Being Jewish doesn't make him not white. The whole thing is basically a dig at the fact that the Sanders campaign has been abysmal in terms of race, which is true regardless of whether or not Sanders is Jewish. It's not an attempt to deny that Sanders is "legitimately Jewish" or anything like that, it's that Sanders — Jewish or not — has appealed almost exclusively to young, middle class straight white men. Clinton wins with minorities, women, people older than 30ish, the poor, and the LGBT community, but it's Sanders that's the "true" progressive (according to Sanders).

edited 29th May '16 4:31:54 PM by NativeJovian

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#124024: May 29th 2016 at 4:43:10 PM

[up] He's also being intellectually dishonest (or shockingly ignorant) in that regard by conveniently ignoring the intersections of demographics in order to make his argument that Sanders base, and that Sanders himself is racist and sexist based on the "fact" that only whites and men (and a few other minorities he's rather conveniently ignoring) voted for him.

Age, along with party status (independents and non-democrats in open primaries overwhelmingly favored Sanders) were by far the biggest predictors of which candidate a particular voter supported in this primary, to the point where virtually every possible intersection involving young (particularly 30 or younger) was skewed towards Sanders in the primaries, in some cases overwhelmingly so. Young female voters were even more skewed towards Sanders than their male counterparts, surprisingly enough (at least that was the case around the halfway point of the primary, I haven't really checked since).

Moreover, I'd dispute your assertion that Sanders has been abysmal on race. Corporate media says he's abysmal on race, without really offering any basis in regards to his policy proposals for that other than producing a nutty supporter, and it is seemingly accepted a priori by people of your persuasion. His proposed policy on race issues was essentially the same as Clinton's. That he has not been especially successful among black and Hispanic voters does not demonstrate that he is a racist, any more than the fact that Hillary Clinton was not successful in attracting minority voters in the 2008 election proves that about her. She in fact did much, much worse with minority voters than Sanders has done back in 2008, particularly among blacks, who voted for Obama over her at a 10:1 ratio compared to to the 4:1 ratio of the current race.

edited 29th May '16 5:01:54 PM by CaptainCapsase

vandro Shop Owner from The little shop that wasn't Since: Jul, 2009
Shop Owner
#124025: May 29th 2016 at 5:00:28 PM

Hmmmm...The argument that he isn't the true progressive he portrays himself as because of the demographics of his base reeks to me of a nice dismissal of his trajectory in favor of his identity characteristics, like, he's fought for minority rights forever, but he is so white and male so it matters not. I know George Prescott Bush is the president for me, in that case, he is brown!


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