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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#123726: May 27th 2016 at 1:58:15 PM

His father was a libertarian but ran as a Republican. So yes, those libertarians that are successful tend to end up hogtying themselves to the Republican party. It's be interesting if one of them every tried caucusing with the Democrats.

I think some of the Greens have been successful at getting into some state level seats, but again, usually by joining with the Democrats as the party that aligns most closely with their views.

It's the effects of both FPTP and the parties being big tents; smaller parties tend to ally themselves with whichever of the two is closest to them in terms of ideology in order to get anything done and to get into positions of influence. Or, as has been the case with the Tea Party, take it over.

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#123727: May 27th 2016 at 1:59:06 PM

@Fighteer: As far as young Republicans go, Libertarians are doing great. Like, they're the only group on the right that does even a moderately good job at attracting young voters.

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#123728: May 27th 2016 at 1:59:23 PM

You also gotta remember that most libertarians aren't of the proper academic kind and more upper class white people and their kids who don't wanna pay taxes and burn their crosses without anyone telling them not to.

edited 27th May '16 2:00:56 PM by LeGarcon

Oh really when?
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#123729: May 27th 2016 at 2:00:04 PM

The Libertarians have one state house seat, that's it, the Vermont Progressive Party hold 6 state house and 3 state Senate.

New York seems to be the home of several small parties, the New York founded Working Families Party hold a state house seat and a state senate one (but not in New York I belive, in another state), the Convserative Party of New York State have a state house seat as do the Independance Party of New York.

Apparently New York lets candidates who are endorsed by a small party be listed under both their main party and the small party endorsement on the ballot. So small parties can exist and 90% of the time endorse a Republican or Democrat but also occasionally run a candidate of their own.

Edit:

It's far from a FPTP issue, no other FPTP country has this issue, the closest Country is Japan, which operates a hybrid method.

edited 27th May '16 2:01:47 PM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Keybreak (Long Runner)
#123730: May 27th 2016 at 2:10:21 PM

Well I'd probably rather there not be parties...I just want the United States to feel united.

Differing ideas of how to run a country are fine, but the U.S. seems so differing in values. On the surface it would seem to be a country that appreciates hard work and inclusivity, but deeper down it's rife with class division and bitterness.

tongue Could it even be united?

You gotta believe me when I scare you away, all that I wish for is that you would stay
Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#123731: May 27th 2016 at 2:32:08 PM

[up] That's the same as every other country, Key.

Keep Rolling On
Keybreak (Long Runner)
#123732: May 27th 2016 at 2:49:16 PM

What is, differing views? Class division?

You gotta believe me when I scare you away, all that I wish for is that you would stay
TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
Ekuran Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
BlueNinja0 The Mod with the Migraine from Taking a left at Albuquerque Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Mod with the Migraine
#123735: May 27th 2016 at 3:38:16 PM

even if they did pick Hillary, Bernie could still run as an independent, couldn't he?
Could yes, but it's highly unlikely. Running as an independent would ensure that Trump would earn the largest percentage of the vote, and Bernie wouldn't want that outcome.
I'll be thrilled if his sudden 180 and willingness to speak for Trump at the convention is so that he can step up on Trump's behalf and go, "Ladies and gentleman, thanks for having me. I just wanted to say that this man is PSYCHOTIC and a THREAT to our nation and for the love of all that is holy, DO NOT vote for him!"
That would surprise me greatly. The Repub establishment is falling in line behind Trump because it's the only way they can hold onto any kind of power, and I don't see Rubio turning his back on that.
Is the Libertarian Party unpopular because libertarianism is unpopular? Or because people think the only way to win is to side with the already huge two main groups.
A little of both?

In other news, Michigan Governor Snyder has been told - by his own Attorney General - to stop his "independent" investigation into the Flint water thing.

Something happened yesterday that left me flabbergasted.

Federal, local and state officials ganged up on Governor Rick Snyder and told him his efforts to investigate the mess in Flint were hampering their attempts to do so, and told him to knock it off.

And the Snyder administration basically put its tail between its legs, whimpered, and said “okay.” Anna Heaton, one of his spokespersons, put out a press release that plaintively, or peevishly, concluded, “No agency has raised any concerns with our office before now,” but then added that the governor was asking the office of the Auditor General and the inspector general of the Department of Health and Human Services to suspend their investigations.

One of the many odd things about this is that so many different agencies ganged up together to do this to the governor publicly. I’ve written a book with former Michigan Attorney General Frank Kelley about his life and career.

In his time, when a governor did or was about to do something he considered inappropriate, he would go and privately warn the chief executive before he would even think of going public. We live in a different era now. That state Attorney General Bill Schuette was willing to publicly embarrass a governor of his own party wasn’t surprising. The men have never liked each other, and Schuette desperately needs to separate himself from Snyder if he is to have any chance of getting elected governor himself.

What was surprising is that Schuette did so in a coordinated strike with U.S. Attorney Barbara Mc Quade, who is presumed to be a Democrat, and that Schuette was joined by Genesee County Prosecutor David Leyton, who is not only a Democrat, but the man Schuette defeated to win the attorney general’s job six years ago.

This has to be mortifying to the governor, who has been having a terrible year. Plainly, the state attorney general’s office felt blindsided by what now looks like the governor’s ham-handed efforts to investigate Flint, a crisis of his own making.

The attorney general’s main spokesman said his department only learned of the governor’s inquiry into the Department of Environmental Quality on April 20 – and then only because Mr. Snyder mentioned it in a press conference.

Again, it seems incredible to me that the governor would launch such a probe without consulting or at least informing the relevant authorities, but it would appear he sees government as a series of independent, if not warring, fiefdoms.

That’s bad enough, but both state and federal authorities said the governor’s freelance probes could have done considerable damage to their own ongoing criminal investigations. The governor then backed off; he had no choice. When the attorney general’s spokesman was asked if all this was a warning to Snyder that obstruction of justice charges were possible, he declined to answer, which really was an answer.

What’s also disturbing is that these leaders still haven’t figured out that they need to talk to each other. When Anna Heaton was asked if the governor had communicated with the attorney general, she said the press release to the news media was the response.

Well, that’s how we “negotiate” with North Korea. But you’d think two officials elected to look after the interests of our state could do better.

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw
megarockman from The Sixth Borough (Experienced Trainee)
#123736: May 27th 2016 at 3:41:15 PM

(CNN) - Trump's pulling the debate offer from Sanders.

ABC News Tonight played a short clip of Sanders calling Trump a bully and asking what he's afraid of.

The damned queen and the relentless knight.
TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#123737: May 27th 2016 at 4:36:36 PM

Oh wow. This New TYT interview with Sanders....

Dude just openly shitted on Ralph Nader and pretty much just blasted anyone of his supporters who would vote third party.

And gave every indication that he's stumping hard for Clinton in the fall.

If true. Welp. Congrats to Clinton for making history

New Survey coming this weekend!
smokeycut Since: Mar, 2013
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#123739: May 27th 2016 at 4:40:04 PM

I assume that TYT heads' exploded?

That or they promptly declared that after such a selfless and party unifying move he will clearly win every singe remaining delegate and end up with the majority of pledged delegates?

edited 27th May '16 4:40:23 PM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#123740: May 27th 2016 at 5:07:34 PM

Would the US drop the bomb again Public opinion supported the strike on Hiroshima—and if provoked, many Americans might well back nuclear attacks on foes like Iran and al Qaeda. WTF!! Cross posted on the Military thread.

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#123741: May 27th 2016 at 5:33:38 PM

Somebody was mumbling something about Sanders burning bridges. Well, looks like they were right, but not the bridges you'd expect.

edited 27th May '16 5:34:08 PM by TheHandle

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#123742: May 27th 2016 at 6:01:30 PM

I've just regained a lot of respect for the man.

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#123743: May 27th 2016 at 6:08:10 PM

Good thing that the Joint Chiefs aren't stupid. The only thing (short of an Alien Invasion or the Legions of Hell coming to visittongue) that would provoke an American nuclear strike would be a WMD strike on it or its allies. And even then if North Korea or AQ/ISIS (if they managed to get a WMD) did a limited strike, the US might limit itself to an overwhelming conventional retaliation instead.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#123744: May 27th 2016 at 6:09:58 PM

Even during the Gulf War, the US was holding back.

Could you even imagine what the modern US military could do under a total war scenario?

New Survey coming this weekend!
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#123745: May 27th 2016 at 6:19:35 PM

Don't let your respect for Sanders rebound too much. Watching Rachel Maddow—Sanders is demanding that a bunch of Democrats—including Barney Frank—be removed from their positions in the DNC or he will slow the actual convention to a halt. Because nothing indicates your loathing of big banks and billionaires like attacking one of the guys behind Frank-Dodd.

Apparently some of the crazier supporters—not Sanders himself, thankfully—are sending death threats to the leaders of the Democratic Party in Wyoming as that convention comes up.

So I'm glad he won't run third-party, but he's still being a royal pain in the rear.

NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#123746: May 27th 2016 at 6:24:58 PM

Oh wow. This New TYT interview with Sanders.... Dude just openly shitted on Ralph Nader and pretty much just blasted anyone of his supporters who would vote third party. And gave every indication that he's stumping hard for Clinton in the fall. If true. Welp. Congrats to Clinton for making history
Got a link to that? I just checked the Youtube channel and didn't see anything to that effect.

Would the US drop the bomb again Public opinion supported the strike on Hiroshima—and if provoked, many Americans might well back nuclear attacks on foes like Iran and al Qaeda. WTF!!
Depending on how you define "provoked", that's literally exactly what nuclear weapons are for. The scenario they polled about was a deliberate mirror of the situation in WWII — Iran is caught violating the nuclear deal they signed with us, we put severe sanctions on them, they do a Pearl Harbor style attack on an aircraft carrier in the Persian Gulf and kill 2400 US military personnel, Congress declares war in response and demands an unconditional surrender, Iran refuses, and the US faces a choice of invading or launching a nuclear attack.

This is literally exactly what nuclear weapons are for, and also exactly why no one is stupid enough to start that kind of shit with a nuclear power (unless they're a nuclear power themselves and can rely on MAD to save them). Hell, the poll even stacked the deck by presenting a probably death toll of 20,000 US military personnel in an invasion vs 100,000 Iranian civilians in a nuclear attack. In WWII, the estimated death toll for a US invasion of Japan was in the hundreds of thousands — to say nothing of the deaths among the Japanese military and civilians. It's not an exaggeration to say that using nuclear weapons in that sort of situation ultimately saves lives, on both sides.

People have this sense that nuclear weapons are some sort of spooky thing off in its own category. They're not, not really. More people died when the US firebombed Tokyo than when we nuked Hiroshima or Nagasaki. In the right circumstances, nuclear weapons should absolutely be on the table as an option, along with conventional bombing, ground invasion, and every other means at our disposal.

edited 27th May '16 6:26:58 PM by NativeJovian

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#123747: May 27th 2016 at 6:42:53 PM

Thought this article was interesting. I've run into a lot of the attitudes that the author mentions, most notably the idea that if I don't support Sanders I must not "understand" how things work. That's not to say my experience is anything like that of the author—I'm both white and Canadian, so I at least get to dodge the racial part of it—but I have no problem believing that it's happened to them.

JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#123748: May 27th 2016 at 6:57:58 PM

[up]That attitude isn't necessarily racist. What is is their belief that Blacks don't vote for Bernie because they are "less educated", and "don't know their best interests", this one is often applied to poor people as well, and aren't "politically engaged", implying they are to stupid to have heard of anyone but Hillary. Racism doesn't just have to be hateful you know.

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#123749: May 27th 2016 at 6:57:58 PM

Honestly, I'm wholly convinced that if HRC, by some miracle, achieved all of Bernie's goals ($15 minimum wage, Free or close-to-free College Tuiton, Universal Healthcare, dramatically reduced influence of the financial sector, and CFR) she'd STILL be hated by her detractors on the left.

New Survey coming this weekend!
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#123750: May 27th 2016 at 7:00:43 PM

[up] The only way she'd accomplish that would be through court packing, so I imagine a fair number of people would be decrying her for endangering the republic. That's something I'd really rather avoid as well, though I acknowledge that it might very well be necessary for us to go through another Imperial presidency in order for the current deadlock to be broken without major changes to the electoral system.

edited 27th May '16 7:03:41 PM by CaptainCapsase


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