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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Mars444 Since: May, 2013
#123701: May 27th 2016 at 11:47:16 AM

She has the support of the Democratic base. That is why she's winning in a landslide. What she's losing to Bernie are certain flavors of white liberal, college students, and Democrat-leaning Independents.

edited 27th May '16 11:47:36 AM by Mars444

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#123702: May 27th 2016 at 12:01:04 PM

I'd hardly call a 300 pledged delegate lead a landslide, it's a win and lot a close one but it's not exactly a landslide, likewise it's from just whites voting for Sanders, he's tied for both Hispanics and young blacks, again not more then Clinton, but still a group of people who aren't whites that support Sanders.

Now the vast majority of Sanders folks will fall in line and vote Dem come November, but she may need more then votes from them. The way you win elections if often turnout, that means you need political activists knocking on doors and getting people to the polls, Sanders has a lot of political activists to knock on doors and Clinton may need them to be doing that come November, instead of grumpily sitting in their living rooms accepting that in the end they kinda have to go vote for Clinton.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Keybreak (Long Runner)
#123703: May 27th 2016 at 12:04:39 PM

I was never sure...

Delegates are just party voters, right? They vote on the candidate they want for the party, not explicitly who's going to be president.

That's the electoral college, isn't it...

So even if they did pick Hillary, Bernie could still run as an independent, couldn't he? Never mind that he probably wouldn't win...

edited 27th May '16 12:05:00 PM by Keybreak

You gotta believe me when I scare you away, all that I wish for is that you would stay
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#123704: May 27th 2016 at 12:06:41 PM

[up] He absolutely wouldn't win as an independent barring a scenario where none of the candidates gets a majority, and his participation in the election raises turnout enough to give the democrats the house of representatives. Which would probably go on to pick Clinton anyway unless the mass movement he's been calling for were to actually materialize.

Which is an insanely risky gambit, especially since it's never been established whether the new house or the old house gets to pick a president in that scenario.

edited 27th May '16 12:09:06 PM by CaptainCapsase

Keybreak (Long Runner)
#123705: May 27th 2016 at 12:09:03 PM

But he could still do it, right? Being on the party ticket just means that you get the big party backing and all the attention.

You gotta believe me when I scare you away, all that I wish for is that you would stay
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#123706: May 27th 2016 at 12:09:48 PM

[up] He could, but he said earlier on he had no intention of running third party/independent. Probably a mistake on his part, since the threat of a third party Trump torpedoing the Republicans is arguably a big part of why the GOP didn't just change the rules mid primary to screw him over.

edited 27th May '16 12:11:27 PM by CaptainCapsase

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#123707: May 27th 2016 at 12:20:36 PM

And doing so wouldn't have been a mistake, turning off massive amount of potential supporters and causing the DNC to turn away from him? Somehow I don't think keeping that particular option open would have actually helped him. Especially since he hasn't been particularly screwed over in this primary to begin with. He's just been steadily losing.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#123708: May 27th 2016 at 12:20:46 PM

Congrats, Rubio! You lost what little respect I had for you.

I'll be thrilled if his sudden 180 and willingness to speak for Trump at the convention is so that he can step up on Trump's behalf and go, "Ladies and gentleman, thanks for having me. I just wanted to say that this man is PSYCHOTIC and a THREAT to our nation and for the love of all that is holy, DO NOT vote for him!"

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#123709: May 27th 2016 at 12:23:33 PM

[up][up] I'd say a big part of why Trump succeeded is because he understood the "hostile" part of "hostile takeover."

megarockman from The Sixth Borough (Experienced Trainee)
#123710: May 27th 2016 at 12:26:34 PM

Re independent Sander run: From wiki, there are sore-loser state laws that prevent a loser in a primary from running in the general as an independent. Most states don't apply this to the general election, but the effect is the same because registration deadlines for the primary and the general are the same day.

Interestingly enough, wiki says one of the few states that don't have either is Vermont.

edited 27th May '16 12:27:16 PM by megarockman

The damned queen and the relentless knight.
Keybreak (Long Runner)
#123711: May 27th 2016 at 12:34:05 PM

"Sore loser state laws"? What even...

Aren't political parties just names? The made-up clubs that join together with similar views to support candidates (partially emotionally and mainly financially) to follow their values? They're legally governed?

You gotta believe me when I scare you away, all that I wish for is that you would stay
megarockman from The Sixth Borough (Experienced Trainee)
#123712: May 27th 2016 at 12:36:31 PM

They are legal persons in law, aren't they?

The damned queen and the relentless knight.
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#123713: May 27th 2016 at 12:37:41 PM

[up][up] Nope. In the United States, we pride ourselves on being more democratic than one party states like China, by effectively outlawing all but two political parties instead of just one. tongue

edited 27th May '16 12:38:00 PM by CaptainCapsase

Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#123714: May 27th 2016 at 12:38:07 PM

@ Keybreak: Definitely. Political parties are usually separate legally-incorporated identities, just any company. They can became bankrupt, have employees and be employers etc...

edited 27th May '16 12:38:40 PM by Greenmantle

Keep Rolling On
Keybreak (Long Runner)
#123715: May 27th 2016 at 12:38:28 PM

Why would you deny somebody the freedom to keep running just because their party doesn't support them anymore.

You gotta believe me when I scare you away, all that I wish for is that you would stay
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#123716: May 27th 2016 at 12:40:17 PM

[up] Because the United States is kind of an oligarchy?

edited 27th May '16 12:40:33 PM by CaptainCapsase

Keybreak (Long Runner)
#123717: May 27th 2016 at 12:41:10 PM

Oh what a relief. I was afraid I was looking undemocratic. ;p

You gotta believe me when I scare you away, all that I wish for is that you would stay
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#123718: May 27th 2016 at 12:42:54 PM

Yeah. Honestly, these kinds of laws aren't that common even in European democracies, but a big difference comes from the fact that there's typically more than two viable parties, kind of in line with Washington's advice regarding political parties; that there should be as many as possible if it is impossible to avoid having them. In that kind of system Sanders and Trump would be perfectly welcome in parties other than the democrats and republicans.

edited 27th May '16 12:43:32 PM by CaptainCapsase

megarockman from The Sixth Borough (Experienced Trainee)
#123719: May 27th 2016 at 12:44:44 PM

If you want to be more charitable, it can also be a preemptive means of screening out "unserious" candidates, since without it what might stop some group from flooding a primary with no-hopers whom the party would have to at least give token monetary support for?

The damned queen and the relentless knight.
Keybreak (Long Runner)
#123720: May 27th 2016 at 12:47:18 PM

But people act like there are only two. Is the Libertarian Party unpopular because libertarianism is unpopular? Or because people think the only way to win is to side with the already huge two main groups.

...I wouldn't be a libertarian. Maybe Green though.

You gotta believe me when I scare you away, all that I wish for is that you would stay
Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#123721: May 27th 2016 at 12:48:06 PM

[up][up] Other countries (mostly in the Commonwealth) require a Deposit to be paid before being able to run — the amount to be paid, of course, varies by country.

It is not returned to the candidate if the number of votes are below a certain threshold; if the number of votes are above that threshold, the deposit is returned to the Candidate.

edited 27th May '16 12:51:00 PM by Greenmantle

Keep Rolling On
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#123722: May 27th 2016 at 1:07:04 PM

I think that only Republicans and Dems get the level of government support that they do though, I doubt that the Libertarian primary is tax payer funded.

That and you guys don't have party expulsion rules, someone can't be kicked out of the Democratic or Republican parties, if they could you'd probably see more people being kicked out and establishing their own parties.

As for Sanders going third party, him ushering a Trump presidency out of spite would go against almost everything he's argued for and make him go down in US history as a massive traitor to democratic liberalism.

edited 27th May '16 1:08:52 PM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#123723: May 27th 2016 at 1:33:48 PM

Part of the reason that the Libertarian party doesn't enjoy widespread support is simply that there aren't enough real Libertarians in the United States to give it that support. It's basic math. They like to imagine themselves to be some sort of "natural" party by virtue of their ideological purity or something like that, but in reality they're a fringe viewpoint.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#123724: May 27th 2016 at 1:37:37 PM

A lack of widespread support doesn't explain their inability to win a single seat in congress.

Do they even hold any seats at state level legislatures?

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
DrDougsh Since: Jan, 2001
#123725: May 27th 2016 at 1:41:18 PM

I imagine many people who are attracted to libertarianism just figure it's smarter to work their ideas through the Republican party. That's what Rand Paul was trying to do, wasn't it?

edited 27th May '16 1:41:37 PM by DrDougsh


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