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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
I see two possible outcomes from a Sanders-Trump debate. A Trump win means Sanders supporters are exposed to the reality of Sanders not being able to face Trump and some are forced to accept that Clinton has the better chance of defeating Trump. If Sanders wins then Trump just publicly lost a debate.
I fail to see a bad outcome.
As for #Bernie Or Bust, I wanna see what happens when Bernie endorses Clinton, they're gonna do a nut, you think Obama got hatred for being a moderate instead of a savour? The far-left are gonna turn on Sanders something fierce once he endorses Clinton instead of running third party.
What the fuck are you on about? He never honeymooned in the USSR, he went on an offical government trip as Mayor and he has jokingly called it a honeymoon. I'm gonna go ahead and assume that your other facts are similarly factually inaccurate unless you've got sources.
edited 25th May '16 10:53:03 PM by Silasw
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ CyranThe hilarious part is that the far left would've turned on Sanders regardless, if he had gotten elected, because they're going to think him not enacting his policies due to..you know, most of Congress thinking they're batshit insane, gonna instead think that Sanders sold them out and lied to them.
![]()
Oh, you want sources? I always have them saved, just in case.
He is a huge fan of American Marxist Eugene Debs. He still has a portrait of what the Soviets called America's Greatest Marxist in his Senatorial office. (source: http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/6-awesome-things-about-bernie-sanders-you-might-not-know)
But he does little to airbrush the red “S” from his political profile. On the wall of his Congressional office hangs a portrait of Eugene V. Debs, the Socialist Party presidential candidate of the early 20th century' He even MADE A DOCUMENTARY HIMSELF ON THE MAN (source: http://www.businessinsider.com/bernie-sanders-loves-eugene-v-debs-documentary-2015-9)
He defenced Fidel Castro's policies in 1985. He stated "They forgot that he (Fidel Castro) educated their (Cubans) kids, gave their kids health care, totally transformed society." [source: http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/zachary-leshin/sanders-1985-cuba-castro-educated-their-kids-gave-their-kids-health-care
]
He also stated during that same 1985 interview, that just because " Ronald Reagan dislikes these people does not mean to say the people in these nations feel the same."
Why did he state this during a time when thousands of Cubans were trying to escape Castro's regime? [source: http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/zachary-leshin/sanders-1985-cuba-castro-educated-their-kids-gave-their-kids-health-care
]
Why did Bernie Sanders call Sandinista leader Daniel Ortega "an impressive guy with deep convictions," while Ortega was targeting Jews, Catholics, indigenous peoples, journalists, etc. etc.? [source: http://thelibertarianrepublic.com/bernie-sanders-is-a-communist-sympathizer/
]
Sanders called Sandinista leader Daniel Ortega “an impressive guy,” with “deep convictions.” He then accused the Reagan administration of poisoning public perception of the tyrannical regime In addition, when he was Mayor of Burlington why was he was the only elected U.S. official to attend the anniversary of the Sandinista Revolution in Managua? [source: http://www.buzzfeed.com/meganapper/sanders-in-1985-sandinista-leader-impressive-castro-totally
] [source on flag:http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/individualProfile.asp?indid=2266
]
Why did he have a Soviet Union flag in his mayoral office and why did he honeymoon in the USSR in the late 80s? [source on honeymoon:http://www.politifact.com/punditfact...ie-sanders-u/
] [source on flag:http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/individualProfile.asp?indid=2266}
Why did he address the Communist Party's US Peace Council when America was at the brink of winning the Cold War? One of the US Peace Council's goals was to help "the triumph of Soviet power in the US."[source: http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/individualProfile.asp?indid=2266}
Why did Bernie embrace the "People's Republic of Burlington" moniker? China is called the "People's Republic of China" and North Korea is called "Democratic People's Republic of Korea." Notice the term "Democratic" in NK's name. "Democratic" is a term Communists use all the time. Why is Bernie any different? [source: http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/10/bernie-sanders-mayor/407413/
]
When he first got elected Mayor of Burlington why was he the only elected U.S. official to attend the anniversary of the Sandinista Revolution in Managua? [source: http://concisepolitics.com/2015/12/17/bernie-sanders-unbelievably-strong-foreign-policies-as-mayor-of-burlington-vermont/
]
Why did he organize for the Communist United Packinghouse Workers Union, which at the time was under investigation by the House Committee on Un-American Activities? [source: http://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/259477/bernie-sanders-communist-and-ignoramus-matthew-vadum
]
Why did he head the American People’s History Society, which was a Marxist organization? [source: http://nypost.com/2016/01/16/dont-be-fooled-by-bernie-sanders-hes-a-diehard-communist/}
Even though Bernie has praised the Marxists of Nicaragua, Cuba, and the USSR, he now states he is more like Sweden, FDR, and Denmark. If this is true, why did Denmark take its time to refute Sanders and state he is nothing like them? [source: http://www.investors.com/politics/capital-hill/denmark-tells-bernie-sanders-to-stop-calling-it-socialist/
]
When Bernie Sanders was younger he was a member of the youth socialist league. [source: https://mondediplo.com/2016/01/07sanders
]
Bernie praised by socialist Kibbutz http://www.cnn.com/2016/02/09/politics/bernie-sanders-kibbutz-volunteer-israel/index.html
Larry Sanders says Bernie is a ‘genuine socialist’ http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/02/19/bernie-sanders-s-brother-he-backs-class-warfare-bill-clinton-was-worse-than-bush.html
Bernie saying you don't need a choice of 18 deodorants or 20 different kinds of shoes to pick. http://video.cnbc.com/gallery/?video=3000382991
AARP having to release a statement they don't endorse Bernie, after he puts their logo on his flyers http://states.aarp.org/aarp-statement-in-response-to-sanders-mailing/
Bernie Sanders rape comments, source
Bernie paid workers, pretending illegally, to be part of a food workers union in Las Vegas and then harassing people in the Union only breakroom to vote for Bernie. http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/28/politics/bernie-sanders-union-nevada-culinary-union/index.html
The story how Bernie's wife, with his help, bankrupted the local church with a bad loan and help cover it up and get her a $200,000 buyout. http://vtdigger.org/2015/09/13/jane-sanders-overstated-donation-amounts-in-loan-application-for-burlington-college/
Her departure was a source of controversy. She reportedly overstated pledged contributions to the school in order to secure a loan from the Roman Catholic Diocese of Burlington. The diocese lost between $1.5 million and $2 million on the deal, according to local reports. By that time, the school had paid huge sums to the Vermont Woodworking School, which is run by Driscoll. The college eventually paid the school more than $500,000 for classes at its Fairfax, Vt., campus, about 30 miles from Burlington. Burlington College even established a Master of Fine Arts program in woodworking with leased space at the school as its major facility. Tax filings show that the college continued paying the woodworking school in the year after O’Meara Sanders left, but stopped doing so the year after that. Sanders paying his wife and daughter with donations, and clear case of corruption where after his wife became President of the College there were student "study aboard program" on his friend's resort in the Bahamas. http://freebeacon.com/politics/sanders-and-wife-steered-campaign-nonprofit-money-to-family-and-friends
Leopold served with Sanders in the Burlington city government—as mayor, Sanders appointed Leopold city treasurer—before becoming embroiled in scandal involving millions of dollars in payments to a Burlington telecommunications company.
Sen. Sanders has described Leopold as so close a friend as to be considered “family.” He reportedly discouraged Sanders’ socialist impulses early in their careers. Efforts to reach Leopold were unsuccessful. Shortly after Leopold’s son, also named Jonathan, purchased the resort, Burlington College began writing it large checks for all-inclusive stays for its study abroad students. From 2009 through 2011, when O’Meara Sanders stepped down as president of the school, it paid the resort about $68,000, according to annual tax filings. The payments stopped the year after she left the position.
http://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/bernie-sanders-the-bum-who-wants-your-money/
Bernie Sanders: -He failed in the private sector -Owns no assets
-Failed in personal budgeting (even with big pay) to the tune of $65k of credit card debt
-Couldn't even find steady work until his 40's, which was to sign people up for welfare. A paper pusher job that a kid could do.
-Couldn't take care of his son or his baby momma (who left him)
-Couldn't be a dad.
-Always blamed others instead of taking responsibility for his actions.
-Failed four times trying to start a socialist party in his state.
-His son called his father “Bernard", not "dad" or something endearing
-"Virtually unemployed,” said Nelson, The political science professor at the University of Vermont.
-He couldn’t pay his bills. “The electricity was turned off a lot,” Barnett said. “I remember him running an extension cord down to the basement.”
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/07/bernie-sanders-vermont-119927
Bernie is against charity, governments only should run programs
https://twitter.com/SDzzz/status/716341252078178305
Bernie defends the infamous soviet breadlines - says they are a good thing
https://streamable.com/iv2v
Bernie Sanders co-sponsored a bill to dump nuclear waste in a poor hispanic community
http://www.thepeoplesview.net/main/2016/2/17/when-brown-lives-did-not-matter-to-bernie
Bernie blames cervical cancer on the lack of orgasms
http://dailycaller.com/2015/07/06/once-upon-a-time-bernie-sanders-blamed-cervical-cancer-on-lack-of-orgasms/
A good many of these are out of context (not all, though) like the honeymoon, but that doesn't matter. The attack adds write themselves.
New Survey coming this weekend!![]()
Seeing as the honeymoon thing is provable bullshit (it took me five second to check Sander's Wikipedia page for the truth) I fail to see why I should be believing any of the stuff that followed. If you've got a source that proves it I'm all ears and will happily revise my opinion, but so far it just seems to be made up.
And no that doesn't matter in an attack ad, but if we're talking about what shit Republicans can make up in an attack ad nobody comes out looking good.
Cheers for the sources, will go though them now.
edited 25th May '16 11:42:43 PM by Silasw
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ CyranIs this supposed to be some shocking revelation? Sanders has heavily emphasized that he is a socialist. It's no secret.
edited 26th May '16 2:26:39 AM by Demonic_Braeburn
Any group who acts like morons ironically will eventually find itself swamped by morons who think themselves to be in good company.A quick skim and so far I'm seeing a lot of "RED SCARE! RED SCARE" and deliberate misinterpretation (also the Danish PM apparently not understanding the term Democratic Socalist), alongside him once writing a stupid story 40 years ago and him once referencing a questionable study.
The genuine things seem to be his links to oppressive Communist regimes, the nuclear waste dumping thing, possibly the wife church thing (I need to look into it more), the campaign cheating thing and maybe the rape comment thing (your source is a hotline so it's blocked on the forum).
So he's a NIMB Yer who's a bit of an IR hipster, that's plenty of reason to dislike him but when you just scream a list of half bullshit it's hard to take the complaint seriously.
Yes he's vunurable to attack ads, so is Clinton, she might even be more vunurable, but that doesn't matter, nobody key is buying the bullshit Trump is throwing anyway.
Now Sanders shouldn't be on the ticket for other reasons, but vunurability to attack ads is not a valid reason when Clinton is the other half of the ticket.
edited 25th May '16 11:43:44 PM by Silasw
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran![]()
Dude...Karl Rove literally made John Kerry run away from his war hero record.
They'd have a field day taking down Sanders.
And this is just the stuff we KNOW about. The man hasn't been vetted at all. Clinton has been attacked repeatedly for twenty years. Every person in the country more or less already has an opinion on her.
edited 25th May '16 11:53:21 PM by TacticalFox88
New Survey coming this weekend!So, Sanders decided to team up with Trump to try and ruin Hilary's campaign at the last minute? Funny. Guy sure has a way of not selling out.
There honestly isn't a single way that this can end well. HRC has systematically destroyed Sanders in each one of their debates [judging by elections after those debates, not by online polls; Sanders has spent $4mil on his online team, they can definitely manage to brigade a poll], and that's with a style of debating that tried to stay positive and not bring up Trump's dirt. Trump isn't the kind of guy who needs dirt to start with when he attacks a candidate, but his staff will surely have briefed him on all of the sources just linked to the thread [maybe some of the sources aren't the most truthful, but this is Donald Trump. If he cared about truth, he'd be running a vastly different campaign] and plenty more that he can throw out there if Bernie tries to make it a debate about the two of them; Bernie's typical strategy of 'get mad and waggle fingers at the moderator and speaker' aren't going to work there whatsoever. But neither Trump nor Sanders would really benefit from that sort of approach to debate.
What they'd benefit from is both going after HRC, which is probably what Trump wants to do. Trump wants to attack HRC and court Sanders' voters. If he attacks HRC, he puts Sanders in the position of: agreeing with Trump and throwing HRC under the bus (which would probably be a short term benefit for Bernie), disagreeing with Trump and appearing a sell-out for it or constantly trying to reframe the debate away from that.
I'm not sure what a Trump/Sanders debate would be like, but I doubt it'd be just them jerking each other off for 3-4 hours. He's not agreeing to be Trump's VP or anything.
Senator Ted Cruz (R-TX) has joined
a growing chorus of Republicans demanding the ouster of the Veterans Affairs chief who compared wait times for medical attention to lines at Disneyland.
edited 26th May '16 12:16:14 AM by Demonic_Braeburn
Any group who acts like morons ironically will eventually find itself swamped by morons who think themselves to be in good company.
X4 The Republicans can't tar Sanders with being a Socalist because he's out already, that and they used that one on Obama to much, so that leaves the ties to Communist regimes, which again they've cried wolf on Obama so much that's lost its bite, a few old statements, possibly the wife thing and the fact that he doesn't give a shit about folks in Texas.
Yes they can lie and exaggerate, but here's the thing, this isn't the Kerry era, nobody buys their media bullshit anymore unless they're already indoctrinated, nobody who the Republicans needs would listen.
Nope, no idea where you got that idea from.
edited 26th May '16 12:12:27 AM by Silasw
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
You...
You can't POSSIBLY be that naive.
I refuse to believe you actually believe this.
These are things that Sanders has said ON TAPE and on record. They literally wouldn't even have to lie at all. Just replay all the batshit crazy shit he says on loop along when he said he was gonna raise taxes which is the kiss of death in a GE.
If Hillary wanted to she could've sunk his campaign the moment it started, had she known he was gonna be such a liability.
Is this your first election? Every political scientist and policy wonk all agree damn near universally that Sanders would practically hand the election to the GOP on a silver platter.
New Survey coming this weekend!
X3 Me not buying into your simplistic idea that everyone believes everything the GOP says, that Sanders is crazy and that wanting to raise taxes on anyone will kill you at an election does not make me naive.
Also this "Clinton could have won whenever she wanted" idea, where the hell is that coming from?
Since when? Now I know enough not to take Sanders polling well against Trump as proof that he's gonna win by a mile for certain or even that he'd win, but hand the election over on a silver plater? That's something I've yet to here and would like to see backed up.
edited 26th May '16 12:31:14 AM by Silasw
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ CyranHonestly, the Communist regime thing could really hurt Sanders amongst Latinos and Asians.
I don't thinks a Sanders victory would be impossible, but a Sanders landslide....
edited 26th May '16 12:35:10 AM by Demonic_Braeburn
Any group who acts like morons ironically will eventually find itself swamped by morons who think themselves to be in good company.I'd also like to point out that a number of voters believe any anti-[insert Democratic candidate here] attack no matter how valid or who will disbelieve any because GOP and its advertisers are pathological liars. On top of that a lot of anti-Sanders talking points are questionable in terms of relevance or presentation, especially when talking comparatively (one out of two candidates will become president after all). Frankly, I am starting to wonder if any of them other than the mathematical, foreign policy and race issues based ones have any more credibility than the Hillary "scandals".
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard FeynmanTrump got away with calling Mexicans rapists and openly campaigned on implicit white nationalism.
If that didn't clue anyone in that he was going to be the nominee or he was going to get damn close, I don't know what would've.
And btw this is what happens when you elect a far left who has no idea what they're doing:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_1984
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_1972
Third time's the charm?
Oh, and more people saying what I've been saying: http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2016/05/bernie_sanders_electability_argument_is_still_a_myth.html
I'm not sure why you think Sanders debating Trump is such a terrible idea. For Sanders, the debate will be a huge boost in publicity if nothing else, and if he does well it'd reinforce the idea that he's better suited to run against Trump than Clinton. Same for Trump — with little to do until he's named the GOP nominee, another big profile debate with a crowd-attracting rival would keep him in the spotlight. I don't get how any of you are concluding that this means Sanders is "teaming up" with Trump to screw over Clinton.

That's exactly why making Sanders VP a terrible idea on several levels. For one, let's keep it real, he's a moron who doesn't know what he's talking about half the time he gives his same stump speech. Second, he's old, which is self-explanatory. Third, he would be fair game in the general, and ALL of his baggage from honeymooning in the USSR, writing rape fantasies, praising Castro, saying he doesn't believe in charities, dumbass comments about cancer, farmers running the Federal Reserve, problems with Jane Sanders and Burlington college, etc.
He'd sink her candidacy faster than the Titanic
New Survey coming this weekend!