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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#123201: May 21st 2016 at 10:42:09 PM

Letting the Republicans win this cycle just gives them an excellent chance to suicide bomb the country on their way down, via filling the Supreme Court with fascists/fucking up foreign and trade policy royally/more voter fraud/gods know whatever executive orders Trump comes up with.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#123202: May 21st 2016 at 10:58:47 PM

It's imperative we don't let ANY Republican near the White House until the GOP's batshit insanity is forced out of the party and it becomes somewhat reasonable again.

New Survey coming this weekend!
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#123203: May 22nd 2016 at 12:19:53 AM

That's pretty much what I'm referring to; that kinda of wacky project is what tends to happen on occasional when an organization gets a blank check in the same way the American military industrial complex gets. Generally they're a bit more subtle about wasting extra money in their budgets, but every so often...
I really dislike this attitude. It's easy to point at a project that doesn't produce major results and say "SEE LOOK HOW MUCH MONEY THE GOVERNMENT IS WASTING ON STUPID SHIT!" but 1) that's with the benefit of hindsight; it's not always clear that the project is unworkable when it starts, and 2) research that comes up with a negative result doesn't necessary mean it was a waste of money; at least now you know that that's not a viable line of inquiry and you can shift your priorities to other things.

I'm not saying that wasteful government spending isn't a thing, but I feel like people tend to forget (or ignore) the fact that research is expensive and there's no such thing as a sure thing.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#123204: May 22nd 2016 at 1:48:23 AM

There's nothing wrong about researching a possible phenomenon, except of course when you use non-consenting African-American volunteers.

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#123205: May 22nd 2016 at 2:01:12 AM

Sanders and his supporters have made it pretty clear he's not in this for democracy, as evidenced by their love of caucuses which are, if anything, less democratic than the dreaded closed primaries he's been denouncing.

That is some thinly supported statement, I have to say.

As for burning bridges, the dispute over Nevada's delegates or future such events are the only way Sanders can burn bridges now, opposing DWS is unlikely to burn anything, she's a net negative and even the rank and file Democrats are realizing this.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#123206: May 22nd 2016 at 2:12:05 AM

https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/The-Men-Who-Stare-at-Goats_6640.jpg

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
desdendelle Hooded Crow from Land of Milk and Honey (Sergeant) Relationship Status: Hiding
Hooded Crow
#123207: May 22nd 2016 at 3:37:06 AM

@Bat, WRT wall: it actually worked pretty well in reducing terrorist attacks, but not on its own. It took a bit more than a wall.

On empty crossroads, seek the eclipse -- for when Sol and Lua align, the lost shall find their way home.
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#123208: May 22nd 2016 at 6:14:46 AM

That's not what the wall was primarily for, though. But that's a topic for another thread. %&*#$)+%+^#?@

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#123209: May 22nd 2016 at 7:35:30 AM

@Jovian: There isn't any such thing as a "sure thing" when it comes to research, I work in that kind of field, but understand that when these sort of pseudoscience projects I'm talking about get green-lighted, its usually more of an effort to spend extra money in the budget so an organization can justify asking for a raise rather than an expectation that it will actually produce any useful results.

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#123210: May 22nd 2016 at 7:51:02 AM

Don't think this has popped in yet so...

Trump hits Clinton after EgyptAir flight's disappearance http://www.politico.com/story/2016/05/donald-trump-hillary-clinton-egypt-air-223392

Credit where it's due, man doesn't waste time.

edited 22nd May '16 7:51:18 AM by sgamer82

NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#123211: May 22nd 2016 at 10:29:46 AM

[up][up]What I'm getting out of that comment is "research is fine, except when it's the kind I don't personally approve of", which is the exact sort of attitude I'm complaining about. "This is obviously just a budget-padding waste of time" according to a random Joe on the street like you or I is a sentiment almost always caused by a generic mistrust of government — also an attitude I heartily dislike. Quite frankly, the vast, vast majority of people have neither the access nor the expertise to make those kinds of judgements.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
pwiegle Cape Malleum Majorem from Nowhere Special Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Cape Malleum Majorem
#123212: May 22nd 2016 at 10:49:02 AM

[up][up]Trump could use a nice, hot, steaming cup of STFU. His remarks are all bombast and BS, with no substance whatsoever.

This Space Intentionally Left Blank.
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#123213: May 22nd 2016 at 11:12:06 AM

Honestly, Egypt Air is looking less and less like a terrorist act every day; if only because no one is taking credit for it.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#123214: May 22nd 2016 at 11:42:53 AM

This is the future of US politics Were seeing the end of political realignment brought about by the culture wars, and seeing the beginning of a policy realignment.

And I must say I really hope the Republicans can save themselves, because I am not liking the projected shape of the Democratic party. A President who does not believe in a sovereign entity called the United States of America, and of putting that nations interests ahead of this citizen of the world crap, has as little business governing as someone who profess to "hate government."

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
Bat178 Since: May, 2011
#123215: May 22nd 2016 at 12:06:16 PM

[up][up] Of course, Donald Trump will still probably say it is a terror attack even if it isn't and that the French are just trying to save face.

[up] Looks like clickbait to me.

edited 22nd May '16 12:10:54 PM by Bat178

Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#123216: May 22nd 2016 at 12:18:39 PM

[up][up] I guess this is your sort of thing?

The Republicans will be a party of mostly working-class whites, based in the South and West and suburbs and exurbs everywhere. They will favor universal, contributory social insurance systems that benefit them and their families and reward work effort—programs like Social Security and Medicare. But they will tend to oppose means-tested programs for the poor whose benefits they and their families cannot enjoy.

They will oppose increases in both legal and illegal immigration, in some cases because of ethnic prejudice; in other cases, for fear of economic competition. The instinctive economic nationalism of tomorrow’s Republicans could be invoked to justify strategic trade as well as crude protectionism. They are likely to share Trump’s view of unproductive finance: “The hedge-fund guys didn’t build this country. These are guys that shift paper around and they get lucky.”

Keep Rolling On
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#123217: May 22nd 2016 at 12:27:46 PM

shift paper around Huh. My thinking was that the financial industry is a series of tubes through which money flows. Or more akin to a loan service with a billion bells and whistles. And that makes me think of why people consider Trump a "straight"-talker.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#123218: May 22nd 2016 at 12:32:21 PM

[up][up] No but the future Democrats aren't ether. I'll probably still vote for them, as future Republicans will be far worse, but that doesn't mean I won't be pissed with them.

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
storyyeller More like giant cherries from Appleloosa Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: RelationshipOutOfBoundsException: 1
More like giant cherries
#123219: May 22nd 2016 at 12:40:36 PM

Hell even Libya doesn't have that much outrage over it,

I was literally responding to someone who was mad about the US intervention in Libya. I agree that there isn't much outrage among sensible people, but I was talking about the crazy isolationists I see on Reddit.

Blind Final Fantasy 6 Let's Play
JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#123220: May 22nd 2016 at 12:42:15 PM

The Nation he built A POLITICO review of Barack Obama’s domestic policy legacy—and the changes he made while nobody was paying attention.

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#123221: May 22nd 2016 at 12:49:01 PM

Former Massachusetts Governor and Libertarian Vice Presidential hopeful Bill Weld is refusing to back down from his comments that compare Donald Trump's deportation policy to the anti-Jewish pogrom Kristallnacht.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/22/politics/bill-weld-holocaust-donald-trump/index.html

Glad that someone has the courage (combined with the fact that he has nothing to lose electorally) to call the Trumpenfuhrer out.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#123222: May 22nd 2016 at 12:58:15 PM

That article makes some good points and some bad ones. They're right that the current party realignment is a response to shifts in their base that have already happened — the politicians are playing catch-up, not breaking new ground. But the they're ignoring the elephant in the room — the fact that it's, in a very large part, about race. They talk about Democrats being pro-choice and pro-gay rights, while Republicans are pro-life and defenders of traditional marriage. The problem is that this isn't actually true. The religious left and the religious right agree on basically everything — they're both progressive on economic issues (they like social security, medicare, welfare, etc) and conservative on social issues (they're pro-life, support traditional marriage, etc). This is how you get states like California, as blue a state as there's ever been, passing Proposition 8, which defined marriage as being between one man and one woman — and how you get things like Tea Party activists holding signs saying "keep government out of my medicare".

The only different between the religious right and the religious left is that the religious right is mostly white and the religious left is mostly black and hispanic.

This means that the religious left is the religious left because they got pushed out of the Republican party by racist conservatives — the same people who voted for Trump in the primary. The religious right votes Republican because they're willing to put social issues like abortion and gay marriage before anything else. If that means allying with libertarians who want to want to get rid of social security and medicare and racists who are worried about white Christians no longer being the majority of the population, then so be it. The religious left is more concerned about opposing the racist right than they are about their other social causes, so they'll vote Democrat even if that means voting for candidates that are pro-life and support gay marriage.

The article touches briefly on racism as a facet of nationalism, but ultimately dismisses it — which is a mistake. Sad as it is, politics since the 60s have been driven largely by racism as a reaction to the civil rights movement, and pretending otherwise is sticking your head in the sand. What things will look like in the future depends entirely how successful the Republicans are in the next two or three election cycles. My personal thought is that they're going to do extremely poorly outside of gerrymandered "safe" red districts (which, if they're smart, the Democrats will get rid of, since doing so at this point benefits them more than hurts them) and the Trump-era Republicans will ultimately be little more than an embarrassing footnote in American history. What comes after that, though, I couldn't really say.. Could the Republicans go full small-government libertarian — fewer services but lower taxes, legalizing drugs and gay marriage and reducing the military-industrial complex to a reasonable size? Or they could collapse entirely, giving rise to a new far-left party to oppose the center-left Democrats? I honestly have no idea.

edited 22nd May '16 12:59:42 PM by NativeJovian

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#123223: May 22nd 2016 at 1:07:02 PM

My personal thought is that they're going to do extremely poorly outside of gerrymandered "safe" red districts (which, if they're smart, the Democrats will get rid of, since doing so at this point benefits them more than hurts them)

Eh, who is helped by which districts being removed...?

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#123224: May 22nd 2016 at 1:15:24 PM

Nationalism and Racism aren't that strongly connected in the US, I'd argue. For example, the confederacy and the KKK started as regionalist oppositions to the nation.

Leviticus 19:34
JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#123225: May 22nd 2016 at 1:41:16 PM

[up] The connection is somewhat strong,but not universal. I think the main problem is that most of these nationalists do not believe that immigrants and minorities are genuinely patriotic, the explanation for all the American flags at pro immigration rallies is that their just faking it to gain sympathy. Their is also I feel a bit of bitterness about them being "replaced" by new Americans. At least that's my take after having interacted with some of these people.

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.

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