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CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#123126: May 21st 2016 at 2:25:43 PM

[up] Let's be honest, Donald Trump being President is a scenario that wouldn't have seemed out of place in South Park last year.

TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#123127: May 21st 2016 at 2:29:09 PM

Vote Clinton. After the primaries.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#123128: May 21st 2016 at 2:34:31 PM

[up][up]Maybe, but I'd argue Trump actually winning a general is kind of ridiculous.

Leviticus 19:34
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#123129: May 21st 2016 at 2:34:47 PM

I'm so sick of seeing those "Bernie Or Bust" idiots on social media, even if they are a loud minority (and I'm not sure about that). As far as I'm concerned saying Bernie Or Bust and meaning it is the same thing as saying Trump 2016. Not voting for Clinton is almost as bad as voting Trump.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
smokeycut Since: Mar, 2013
#123130: May 21st 2016 at 2:36:12 PM

Yeah, I've been seeing a few of them too. Unfortunately, these are also people I know irl.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#123131: May 21st 2016 at 2:36:53 PM

Said people are typically the kind of idiots that think Clinton and Trump are equally bad so that isn't an issue for them.

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#123132: May 21st 2016 at 2:37:52 PM

What kind of "justification" are they giving for not voting Clinton over Trump?

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Bat178 Since: May, 2011
#123133: May 21st 2016 at 2:38:51 PM

By the way, I noticed North America has a ****load of territories, especially in the Caribbean. Just look at them. Oceania has quite a few too, but nowhere near as much as North America.

edited 21st May '16 2:39:39 PM by Bat178

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#123134: May 21st 2016 at 2:39:39 PM

[up][up]Luminosity was pretty big on that. Probably pretty similar justifications going on there: she's super racist, a horrible war hawk, has no solid opinions on anything/nothing solidly leftist, stuff like that.

edited 21st May '16 2:40:24 PM by LSBK

desdendelle Hooded Crow from Land of Milk and Honey (Sergeant) Relationship Status: Hiding
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#123136: May 21st 2016 at 2:42:05 PM

Trump the Charm Person.

I swear to God, the man's got a personality disorder of some sort.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#123137: May 21st 2016 at 2:43:05 PM

[up][up]A lot of people seem to think she is. I don't really know.

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#123138: May 21st 2016 at 2:43:34 PM

~desdendelle: There are people who consider any kind of military intervention war hawkish.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#123139: May 21st 2016 at 2:44:49 PM

I've been seeing something going around that says she secretly backed a coup in some country as Secretary of State. I'm not sure how true it is but frankly I don't care. It's significantly less terrible than the stuff Trump would probably get up to.

desdendelle Hooded Crow from Land of Milk and Honey (Sergeant) Relationship Status: Hiding
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#123141: May 21st 2016 at 2:49:29 PM

Ah yes, the Manuel Zelaya deposition. What people seem to be missing is that he was trying to violate their constitution even after being told to stop.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#123142: May 21st 2016 at 3:03:07 PM

@desdendelle: Compared to Sanders, yes, and she's even a fair bit more hawkish than Obama. I'd also say she's more likely than either of them to get us into a confrontation (not conflict mind you) with China.

JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#123143: May 21st 2016 at 3:06:09 PM

[up] Good. The Chinese could use a bit of confronting, though conflict, especially armed conflict serves nobody's interests.

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#123144: May 21st 2016 at 3:08:56 PM

[up] They have a massive demographic advantage over the United States though, much, much larger than the relatively small population advantage that the Soviet Union had over the US. It's very possible we'd be picking a fight we cannot hope to win in the long run.

Incidentally, on a somewhat related note, as much as Sanders' relatively protectionist trade policy and non-interventionist foreign has been criticized, if one is of the opinion that the United States position as a hyperpower is untenable, and that the world of the future will inevitably be either multipolar or dominated by another power, there's a cetain school of thought that would recommend neomercantilist economic policy in addition to the obvious dialing down of military involvement overseas in order to make the transition into a new balance of power as painless as possible for the United States.

edited 21st May '16 3:12:13 PM by CaptainCapsase

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#123145: May 21st 2016 at 3:12:32 PM

Luminosity was pretty big on that.

That's bullshit, Lumionisty was not a fan of Clinton certainly but Bernie or bust was never suggested, if anything Lumi was just saying (much less diplomatically) what I've been saying on the subject, which is mainly that the "All Sanders supporters are racist and idiot and Sanders is going to third party run" lot are full of it.

What kind of "justification" are they giving for not voting Clinton over Trump?

Some (normally middle class, white ones) want Trump to bring in a new dark age so that we can have a revolution and get 'real' change. With the fear being that Clinton would hobble the existing system along and they're not willing to stand for that, they want either Sanders to remove it or Trump to get elected and be such an arse that there's a revolution that removes it.

Hilary is a war hawk?

Kinda, I think it's more that she has a hawk like willingness to support forign asshole regimes more then Obama, that and she certisnly is less erected n Obama's "lead from the back" strategy, though some consider that a good thing as the lead from the back policy has been shit.

It's very possible we'd be picking a fight we cannot hope to win in the long run.

Hardly, militarily sure, but wars are funded by national economies, the US economy is a lot stronger and more resistant to damage then the Chinease one, the Chinease economy is heavily reliant on western (especially US) consumerism and would, tank without it, not to mention how the area of any such conflict would hurt China more then the US.

edited 21st May '16 3:15:31 PM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#123146: May 21st 2016 at 3:14:44 PM

[up] Besides contrarian assholes, I would imagine any actual revolutionary socialists who haven't totally given up on the democratic process as a capitalist farce would be voting for Trump if Sanders isn't an option, if only because accelerationism is strongly advocated for by Marxist-Leninist political thought.

edited 21st May '16 3:15:26 PM by CaptainCapsase

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#123147: May 21st 2016 at 3:15:35 PM

[up][up]I meant, Luminosity was pretty big on "Clinton isn't really much better than the Republicans", which they were.

And you're right about them not liking blanket generalizations about Sanders supporters but I don't really see how you can argue that a big thing with them wasn't how Clinton is a terrible option, and those were parts of their reasoning, because it was and they did repeat those things constantly.

That's not even going into whether you disagree with them or not, it's just the kind of stuff they said.

edited 21st May '16 3:18:35 PM by LSBK

JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#123148: May 21st 2016 at 3:16:10 PM

[up][up][up] I think she was concerned Clinton might start something with Putin.

@Captain Crapase: It is true the US alone cannot stop China. Even in the most apocalyptic hard landing scenarios they still will eventually eclipse us as the world's largest economy, if not it's largest military. But you must remember that the world's third largest economy is our ally Japan, who are dead set against Asia being dominated by China, as is all of Asia at the present.

edited 21st May '16 3:19:38 PM by JackOLantern1337

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
storyyeller More like giant cherries from Appleloosa Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: RelationshipOutOfBoundsException: 1
More like giant cherries
#123149: May 21st 2016 at 3:17:26 PM

Vote Clinton. After the primaries.

Why not in the primaries too?

Re: Bernie Bros, yeah, the stupidity is just mind blowing. I remember reading some comments on Reddit today complaining about US interventionism. Which they would have a point if they were talking about Iraq, but they also complained about Libya and Syria.

Nevermind the fact that the Libya intervention was to stop an imminent massacre, which was successful by any measure, while the US didn't actually intervene in any meaningful way in Syria (although Clinton pushed for US involvement in Syria as SOS). It's basically damned if you do, damned if you don't, and it really makes me wonder what they'd think about a hypothetical mission to stop, say the Rwandan genocide.

Blind Final Fantasy 6 Let's Play
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#123150: May 21st 2016 at 3:18:20 PM

Re Accelerationism: Yes, except for the time where Stalin and his pals realized that it was simply creating Nazi and fascist regimes...

Accelerationism can cause a lot of damage from the social systems it promotes.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

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