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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
I really don't like Trump (though I wouldn't call him "more extreme" than I so much as not a conservative whatsoever). Trump is all over the place politically, with his only consistent views generally being the ones I dislike. His entire campaign is built on ego and hate.
But if I were to play devil's advocate and defend him, I'd probably bring up a lot of bad things about Hillary and then throw in a "Trump is more malleable" cherry on top.
Leviticus 19:34Yeah, I don't think Johnny is gonna survive this election.
edited 20th May '16 5:48:44 PM by Demonic_Braeburn
Any group who acts like morons ironically will eventually find itself swamped by morons who think themselves to be in good company.I'll play devil's advocate as someone that doesn't really fit well with either wing of American politics: Bernie is seen as a loon by those who either know economics or fear socialism (depending on who you talk to) and that he's acting like the pied piper of Hamelin toward America's voting youth.
Those who support him see him as a way to break the logjam of what they percieve to be an unsustainable (and/or unwanted) status quo. They may or may not agree with his economics, but like that the overall effect will to pull it somewhat more left than usual.
For Hillary, she comes off as a cold, stuck up snob who doesn't care about anything but power and coasts on her husband's name, and thats without taking partisanism into effect. When you do take it into effect, you have the GOP who has hated her since the 90s as the woman behind the man and therefore "the reason" for any of Bill's leftism (not true, but Hilcare was thought to be like that, at least from what I've heard). For Dems, as we have seen on this very thread, she's a DINO sellout.
On the other hand, she is seen as the one most likely to do the actual job well, someone who knows practicality and therefore is less likely to make a mistake "learning on the job". There are also those, even among some republicans (those who might actually vote for her in November), who think she'd know how to get Congress out of a logjam due to her personal relationships within the Senate and even among the longer standing people in the house.
As for Trump, I don't need to go into his negatives. I'm too lazy to type that much.
However, for his positives, there are those who think he's snookering the GOP and will actually moderate as soon as he gets to office (I don't believe that myself, and thus far has not proven this, but it is a theory). Like Sanders, it is hoped he would break the logjam in DC, it is hoped that not being a politician and thus bringing a fresh perspective will balance out any issues he would have from learning on the job. Finally, he represents blue collar whites in a way neither party has done in many years (and I don't just mean the nastier bits...both parties have left them by the wayside economically for different ideological reasons).
There you have it.
Donald Trump: 'Who the hell cares if there's a trade war?'
"For Hillary, she comes off as a cold, stuck up snob who doesn't care about anything but power and coasts on her husband's name, and thats without taking partisanism into effect"
I have never once thought this about Clinton. I've seen people say it constantly, but the notion that she's like that just eludes me.
I've seen it argued that that is the result of us having come far enough to be okay with a woman in power, but not far enough to be okay with a woman asking for additional power.
In any case, I've always liked Clinton. I was alright with her defeat in 2008 because I believed Obama was the better candidate, but I had nothing against her. This time around I'm quite convinced she's superior to Sanders.
Donald Trump: Newt Gingrich 'Absolutely' on My Short List for Vice President.
Who do you guys think Clinton should pick as her VP.
edited 20th May '16 10:39:27 PM by Demonic_Braeburn
Any group who acts like morons ironically will eventually find itself swamped by morons who think themselves to be in good company.There's always the implicit idea that Hillary needs to portray herself as especially confident and in-control to compete in man's world, but those same traits can be seen as arrogance and coldheartedness by people who, consciously or not, don't expect to see those traits in a woman.
Sexism is insidious, and even if you don't make decisions based on sex, you might still judge them by different standards.
edited 20th May '16 10:44:57 PM by Clarste
The problem for me is the aforementioned Sell Out issue. Which is generated by "guilt by association". Bill signed off on a bill to gut Welfare. Obama was looking to auction off Social Security and Medicare to Raise Taxes. And seeing as she's again.
From the same wing of the party as Obama and her husband mostly. Precedent and past patterns indicate that because of the wing of the party she's from, that wing thinks of the New Deal and Great Society things as things they can sell off for political points.
At a point when the country keeps frowning at them for doing so. And probably alongside the racism, was one of the things that helped get Trump's early start. (Treating those programs as "don't touch", even though he's moved away from that.)
Another thing is I'm worried Hillary as far as Economics and "Entitlements" (ugh I hate that term) go, is going to try and act like the 90s. When we need to start thinking about a post work world where more and more machines take over work and there aren't enough jobs for the populace. (Or jobs the populace can get to/qualify for due to increasingly ludicrous standards)
So, the Megyn Kelly interview of Donald Trump was apparently a bit of a snoozefest, resulting in some major Hype Backlash, due both to how much the pair have butted heads over the past year and how Fox advertised the thing. For me, it's disappointing (though not surprising) to see Fox finally just roll over and submit to Drumpf like that, rather than continue to challenge him - and all because he's now the nominee, I can only assume.
The biggest giveaway for that was the segment where she mentioned the Tweets... but then asked "So do you send them yourself?", and when she finally mentioned the vitriol she'd been subjected to (including the repeated use of "bimbo"), she let Trump off the hook by his going "Oh. Excuse me." and smiling as his answer.
edited 21st May '16 6:08:06 AM by ironballs16
"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"![]()
Um, no. We manufacture huge amounts of stuff domestically. China employs more people to make a given amount of stuff because its productivity is much lower than ours. The only reason it's competitive, therefore, is because it pays its workers much less.
edited 21st May '16 6:36:42 AM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"As much as it would make sense for another reality TV show star to run for President after Trump displaying what you can somehow get away with now in 2016, I'm not sure if the voters would take her seriously, considering her Hate Dumb.
I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiotHowever, for his positives
I came across a discussion where a Trump supporter was defending him in a mostly liberal forum, and it was actually interesting and eye opening seeing their viewpoint. It seems that a lot of people legitimately like him because they feel like America is being bullied and disrespected by other nations and that Trump will restore its rightful place.
Though there was also one comment saying that Trump's border wall "has something for everyone", which showed just how out of touch they were. IIRC, the somethings included stuff like
- The border wall will please Labor by ending exploitation of American workers and competition from immigrants
- The wall will please immigration advocates by not doing anything to prevent a solution to legal immigration (huh?)
- The wall will please Keynesians by boosting the economy without costing the government a cent
edited 21st May '16 10:11:34 AM by storyyeller
Blind Final Fantasy 6 Let's Play

You're the most conservative of all of us, Protagonist.
I don't think that even you would want someone who wouldn't run the country like a normal candidate.
And if you're a literal devil's advocate, that means that you're calling him the devil.
Personally, I'm afraid of a man who would demand so much from other nations without giving much back. I'm reading around and people see Trump as the worst stereotype of American people. Building yourself up like that isn't the way to command respect.
You gotta believe me when I scare you away, all that I wish for is that you would stay