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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#122876: May 18th 2016 at 7:51:45 PM

[up]IIRC, wasn't he still in the process of committing war crimes as well as harboring terrorists?

Leviticus 19:34
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#122877: May 18th 2016 at 7:55:31 PM

[up] The fact that the UN has only agreed on what constitutes a war of aggression once in history is more a testament to the fact that the nations most likely to be doing that sort of thing are all on the security council or are in their respective spheres of influence.

BlueNinja0 The Mod with the Migraine from Taking a left at Albuquerque Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Mod with the Migraine
#122878: May 18th 2016 at 7:59:53 PM

This entire thread is basically Democrats and me.
Hey now, I'd still be voting for some Republicans if they hadn't decided to become the party of Legitimate Rape a few years back.
if you want to say that Hillary is more honest than Sanders you'd have to make a breakdown of their statement and the like. My impression from fact checkers is that they are roughly comparable in accuracy and honesty.
Some of the things Hillary has said, while accurate, don't sound accurate, thus leading to a perception problem among viewers. Sanders more often sounds accurate, but not always empathetic.
it might also be an effective chance for both candidates to get out the party's platform to an audience that doesn't usually hear it in a context they're willing to give the benefit of the doubt.
Given how people keep saying that Hillary needs to appeal to the moderate Republicans, I'm surprised she's not on board with a Fox debate.
one [President] served 4 terms
Technically FDR only served about 3.1 terms. He got elected four times.
This is more likely to create some bad feeling between him and his ostensible allies.
I can't see how anything is going to make his Senate deals less likely to happen. What, Bernie's going to start going to the Tea Party to get legislation introduced?
Nuclear power is great, but if we're going to have it, we need to store the waste responsibly.
Hear hear!
Because ignoring your fellow citizens and potentially poisoning them with unsafe storage measures is somehow less horrible than war crimes?
It's either equivalent or it's less. Short of being the person to start a genuine apocalypse, you can't really be worse.
let's round up the Bush administration and every single Congressperson that voted for the Iraq war and put them on trial. I wouldn't even necessarily disagree with that in principle, but singling out Clinton because she's the one of them that's running for President is disingenuous.
Rounding up the Congresscritters who voted for it, based upon faulty information, I would be against. Rounding up Bush et al, I still support. They deliberately fabricated a war for shits and giggles and shareholder profits. If that doesn't count as a war crime, it fucking well should.
and the entire congress is executed in mass as the glorious revolutionary army storms the capital to cast out the capitalist pigs.
11/10 would play again
Civilization as it currently stands is actually a lot more stable than this thread gives the impression of.
Only because we made sure that Gandhi never got nuclear weapons.
You do realize that a lot of tropers present would not really object to throwing Congress as a whole in jail, right?
I would say all, but certainly large portions. Starting with all the ones who have ever been convicted of a felony. Why that doesn't disqualify one from running the country baffles me.

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#122879: May 18th 2016 at 8:02:13 PM

[up]X3 He was still being a generally oppressive dictator but I don't belive he was committing any specific war crimes (he was still being watched pretty closely after he gassed the Kurds during the '90s (I think it was the '90s)) and harbouring terrorists is unlikely unless they were terrorist attacking Iran. He certainly had no connection to 9/11 as was implied.

[up][up]Then explain how Saddam's invasion of Kuwait wasn't judged as one? Even though even Russian signed off on him being forcibly removed?

On a level I suspect it's inertia at this point, nobody wants to declare anything a crime against peace because that puts the country declared that way on the same level of Hitler, and that's a bit much. If it had been done from the start it would work, but now, a country being the only one apart from th Nazis to be done for crimes against peace, that's to big a statement.

edited 18th May '16 8:06:40 PM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#122880: May 18th 2016 at 8:05:47 PM

[up][up] In terms of absolute numbers, one of them is absolutely worse; even if a thousand people died of cancer because of Sanders' bad judgement, that's about 0.1% of the people who died as a result of Clinton (and the majority of congress's) bad judgement and/or malice.

[up] Either way, the UN told the US to send inspectors again and wait to see what they found at the resolution preceding the invasion of Iraq. When the US produced its "evidence" of Iraq stockpiling chemical weapons, the UN didn't sign off on the invasion, and, theoretically, that's what a war of aggression is defined as. It's not really used for the reasons you stated, but I don't think the fact that only Nazi Germany was ever held accountable for it absolves the US of its crime.

edited 18th May '16 8:09:26 PM by CaptainCapsase

flameboy21th The would-be novelist from California Since: Jan, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
The would-be novelist
#122881: May 18th 2016 at 8:09:25 PM

At least a bullet is more likely to result a quick death.

Non Indicative Username
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#122882: May 18th 2016 at 8:15:46 PM

[up] I don't think it really matters all that much for the person who died. They're dead either way.

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#122883: May 18th 2016 at 8:15:48 PM

[up]X3 What the US did is more likely to be considered an act of aggression, which is still a breach of international law and something nationals can be and are punished for, but it's not as severe as a crime against peace.

A crime against peace would likely (based of history and what little written definition there is) be defined as a sustained campaign, so if Iraq hadn't gone tits up and the US had used Iraq as a base for for forcibly changing every regime in the region to be friendly you'd have an argument for a crime against peace, but things never got that far.

What the US did was wrong, it was an act of aggression and a violation of international law, but it wasn't a crime against peace, that's a whole other ballpark

edited 18th May '16 8:16:41 PM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
flameboy21th The would-be novelist from California Since: Jan, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
The would-be novelist
#122884: May 18th 2016 at 8:17:20 PM

[up][up]As someone who is pro-euthanasia, I disagree.

Non Indicative Username
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#122885: May 18th 2016 at 8:26:47 PM

[up][up] I never said it was; I said crime against humanity, and that definition covers any unsanctioned war.

[up] Either way, dying from a gunshot wound (or more likely in this case shrapnel) is slow and agonizing in most cases, and not remotely quick. Not what I'd call a quick and painless death.

edited 18th May '16 8:28:57 PM by CaptainCapsase

Bat178 Since: May, 2011
#122886: May 18th 2016 at 8:37:48 PM

I'm getting worried because of Trump starting to beat out Clinton and the stuff Captain is saying.

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#122887: May 18th 2016 at 8:44:00 PM

Captain is being slightly hyperbolic and what Trump's doing right now isn't actually a guarantee of victory. I'm still pretty sure that Clinton can beat him.

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#122888: May 18th 2016 at 8:44:47 PM

[up][up] How much damage Trump could do is relatively limited due to the nature of the American presidency and the relative stability of the country in the current day. It'd be unpleasant, but he's not going to destroy America, any more than he's going to make it great again.

I imagine it would go about as well as George W. Bush. Which is to say quite bad.

edited 18th May '16 8:47:04 PM by CaptainCapsase

Demonic_Braeburn Yankee Doodle Dandy from Defective California Since: Jan, 2016
Yankee Doodle Dandy
#122889: May 18th 2016 at 8:47:22 PM

This entire thread is basically Democrats and me.

I miss Starship Maximus. Or Starship Maximum. Or whatever the hell his name was.

The fact that he wants it on Fox of all places is also pretty eyebrow raising.

Honestly, FOX did a good job of moderating the Michigan debate. Granted, the GOP didn't have a presumptive nominee at that point...

Donald Trump escalated his attacks on former President Bill Clinton, accusing him of rape in a Fox News interview.

Damn, didn't expect him to go there. Looks like I owe Potato Rocks a coke.

edited 18th May '16 8:51:49 PM by Demonic_Braeburn

Any group who acts like morons ironically will eventually find itself swamped by morons who think themselves to be in good company.
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#122890: May 18th 2016 at 8:49:26 PM

Trump is dancing dangerously close to libel, though he's been doing that for years now.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#122891: May 18th 2016 at 8:51:05 PM

[up] Let's be fair, he wasn't the one who started those accusations; just repeating what's been said dozens of times.

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#122892: May 18th 2016 at 8:53:41 PM

Hoo boy, there's no place Trump won't go. He just doesn't give a fuck.

rikalous World's Cutest Direwolf from Upscale Mordor (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
World's Cutest Direwolf
#122893: May 18th 2016 at 9:12:11 PM

[up][up]Not the first time he's hopped on a conspiracy theory, either. Did he ever stop being a birther?

Demonic_Braeburn Yankee Doodle Dandy from Defective California Since: Jan, 2016
Yankee Doodle Dandy
#122894: May 18th 2016 at 9:17:52 PM

[up] He's trying to distance himself from it, but he hasn't disavowed it.

[[http://www.mediaite.com/tv/matthews-confronts-trump-for-pushing-obama-birtherism-its-your-original-sin/ Matthews asked him tonight, “Is Donald Trump honest when he says that Barack Obama isn’t a legitimate president?”

Trump repeatedly refused to answer the question, saying that once he answers it, “that’s all people want to talk about.” So no, he did not give a straight answer to whether Obama’s a legitimate president.

edited 18th May '16 9:19:13 PM by Demonic_Braeburn

Any group who acts like morons ironically will eventually find itself swamped by morons who think themselves to be in good company.
rikalous World's Cutest Direwolf from Upscale Mordor (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
World's Cutest Direwolf
#122896: May 18th 2016 at 9:43:53 PM

Congratulations, Florida! This time, you make the news because someone from there is being the reasonable one.

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#122897: May 18th 2016 at 10:32:48 PM

Evidently, not running for president anymore does wonders for your sanity. Maybe the effect of being called a truant did also help.

Also, about that 1994 crime bill, if memory serves Hillary did endorse its passage and in far more enthusiastic terms than Sanders did, who did support it with reservations about its effects on incarceration rates.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Knowlessman hey i dunno, why don't you tell me from Stupidtown, USA (FL) Since: Jun, 2013 Relationship Status: Holding out for a hero
hey i dunno, why don't you tell me
#122898: May 18th 2016 at 11:11:34 PM

[up][up] Wait, what? Wow.

i care but i'm restless, i'm here but i'm really gone, i'm wrong and i'm sorry, baby
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#122899: May 19th 2016 at 3:12:24 AM

Marco Rubio, you have earned respect today.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#122900: May 19th 2016 at 6:04:47 AM

@Heap: Yes, and IIRC it was packaged with several other bills that really voting against really wasn't an option, including a violence against women bill.


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