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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
I can't see the page topper.
Oh, wait, i think I get it now.
edited 18th May '16 4:14:11 PM by Protagonist506
Leviticus 19:34Speaking of people who are far to the left of their peers, Sanders himself definitely had some actual socialist leanings back in the day; most seem to assume he mellowed out over time, but I'm personally wondering whether he just realized he wouldn't be able to get anything done as a self-proclaimed socialist.
If that's the case, it's no wonder he's not playing nice with the DNC.
edited 18th May '16 4:41:49 PM by CaptainCapsase
That's how his career started. I don't think he'd mind the Bookends.
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.Yeah out of the actual Americans in the thread about 90% are Dems or further left folks who vote Dem because that's the only option they've got.
You have nicer NIMB Yers then I do, over here they couldn't give a flying fuck if the thing they wanted gone hurt people elsewhere, the South of England is pretty much made up of NIMB Yers and an entire generation are now paying the price for it.
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ CyranAnyway, people can claim that Sanders' NIMBY attitude is typical all they want. Doesn't make me like the man any more though. He's positioned himself as some sort of exceptional, always stands up for the little guy type, and that makes his willingness to ship stuff to a poor community that didn't want it pretty bad.
And then there's all of this
. I'm getting very tired of seeing him a) criticize Clinton for bills her husband passed when b) he himself voted for those bills.
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I guess some of us just never bought into Sanders being perfect, he's good, perhaps for some of us better policy wise then Clinton, but perfect? God no.
Nuclear powered, GMO-drones delivering vaccines. The worst nightmare of the anti-science left.
edited 18th May '16 7:31:23 PM by Silasw
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran![]()
You know I'm getting very tired of being told, be it by you, Septimus, or pick-your-Sanders-supporter, that I have an irrational fear of nuclear power. I like nuclear power. I live in a place that draws much of its electricity from nuclear power. I'm in favour of more nuclear power. If I could move us of off coal and gas and onto nuclear with a snap of my fingers I'd do it because in the long run, it's better of the environment. Put more succinctly, I Love Nuclear Power.
You know what I'm not in favour of though? I'm not in favour of storing nuclear waste, be it high-level or low-level, in cracked canisters in an unlined trench, in a place that experiences flashflooding. In fact, you might go so far as to say I'm militantly opposed to such a thing because it's freaking stupid. And if you go read the articles I linked—including a couple from 1998, so sorry, it's not a Clinton hatchet job on Sanders—that's what Sanders wanted to do. He didn't care where it went, or how safe the storage was, as long as it wasn't near him or his voters. He refused to even visit the site or see the proposed storage "facilities" for himself because, quote, "I'm running for reelection in Vermont."
I have a problem with that. Nuclear power is great, but if we're going to have it, we need to store the waste responsibly. What Sanders was in favour of was not responsible storage. It was idiotic. It was, by any standard, unsafe, which is why ultimately, the plan he supported fell through and they put it somewhere else. Even if it hadn't been unsafe, his willingness to inflict his state's waste on a small, poverty-stricken community that did not want it, would still be a colossally assholish thing to do. That it was unsafe makes it even worse.
Nuclear waste can be stored relatively safely. This was not storing it relatively safely. And Sanders' preparedness to vote in favour of not storing it safely marks him as near as irresponsible as then-Governor Bush, who okayed the storage system in the first place. Something those of you defending Sanders should ask yourselves—if you'd heard this story as a Bush criticism rather than a Sanders one, would you have the same opinion?
edited 18th May '16 6:05:38 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar
Because ignoring your fellow citizens and potentially poisoning them with unsafe storage measures is somehow less horrible than war crimes?
And yeah, this argument was never about nuclear power itself, it was about where to store the waste product and the fact that he flat out didn't give a shit when the people who would be affected came to talk to him. Other people had to fight to get that moved to somewhere safer.
edited 18th May '16 6:11:31 PM by AceofSpades
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It's hardly his only such "mistake", and he's never claimed to regret it. Sanders is tone deaf on race, on gender, on anything that isn't class, and I'm getting deeply tired of seeing him held up as a progressive idol. Clinton may not deserve that title either, but unlike him she's never tried to claim it. If you're going to create an image of yourself like the one Sanders has created, it might behoove you to actually try living up to it.
Let me put it this way—people in Texas don't matter because "I'm running for reelection in Vermont"? Then do the world a favour and stay there Sanders.
He wants to blame Clinton for all the dead of the Iraq War because she—like most people—voted for it under the influence of faulty information.
Of course, two can play at that game. Let's hold Sanders responsible for everybody locked up by the 1994 Crime Bill. You know, the one he keeps ripping on Clinton for? The one he voted for and that she (being First Lady and not a Congresswoman or Senator) did not? Clearly all Sanders' fault.
edited 18th May '16 6:14:25 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar
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Voting to invade Iraq, something Clinton did, and Sanders didn't; at a bare minimum there were around 100,000 civilian casualties during the invasion, and the total death toll as a result of the intervention was easily over a million. There's many different levels of vile; being insensitive about the problems of communities other than your own is one level; signing the death warrant of a hundred thousand people is another.
edited 18th May '16 6:14:43 PM by CaptainCapsase
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But at least she could rightfully claim the blood of the thousands of Americans and hundreds of thousands of Iraqis who died wasn't on her hands, and that she did everything in her power to prevent the war.
Information congress had every reason to believe was erroneous or false from the get go.
edited 18th May '16 6:16:20 PM by CaptainCapsase
Ok but what about ACTUAL WAR CRIMES she committed? Because voting to invade during war time is not in itself an actual crime. A mistake, which she has since admitted was a fucking mistake, is not an actual crime. If you're going to make a claim like that, actually give us a damn example.
And no, potentially poisoning your fellow citizens is not actually better than going to war with another nation. Ranking one over the other is actually quite fucking petty.
edited 18th May '16 6:16:37 PM by AceofSpades
Yeah, let's round up the Bush administration and every single Congressperson that voted for the Iraq war and put them on trial. I wouldn't even necessarily disagree with that in principle, but singling out Clinton because she's the one of them that's running for President is disingenuous.
edited 18th May '16 6:17:11 PM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"@Captain Capsase
And as I said above, under that logic, we can hold Sanders' responsible for everyone who got locked up under the 1994 Crime Bill, seeing as he voted for it. And everyone who is still rotting in Guantanamo since he was one of the Senators who voted to not allow Obama to move prisoners out of it and onto the mainland.
Also, unlike Clinton, who has admitted her mistake in supporting the vote for war in Iraq, Sanders has opted to just blame other people for his bad vote. It's Obama's fault Guantanamo is still open, even though Sanders helped block prisoner movement. It's Clinton's fault that the prisons are overflowing, even though Sanders voted for that bill and she was literally incapable of doing so.
Do you see how dumb this gets after a while?
edited 18th May '16 6:17:36 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar

@protagonist: don't worry, I'm pretty likely to the left of absolutely everyone in this thread, and definitely wouldn't consider myself a democrat, you aren't the only outsider.