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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Mio Since: Jan, 2001
#122801: May 18th 2016 at 2:11:01 PM

Because it's kind of pointless at this stage since Hillary is almost certain to win.

The fact that he wants it on Fox of all places is also pretty eyebrow raising.

Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#122802: May 18th 2016 at 2:20:21 PM

That's being disingenuous. Fox invited Clinton and Sanders for one more debate and Sanders accepted.

rikalous World's Cutest Direwolf from Upscale Mordor (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
World's Cutest Direwolf
#122803: May 18th 2016 at 2:36:52 PM

And since, as far as I'm aware, Sanders is in this to get his ideas out even if he personally doesn't get the nomination this year, I wouldn't exactly call it pointless.

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#122804: May 18th 2016 at 2:39:51 PM

In fact, if memory serves primary delegates have a lot of say in party platform and policies other than "who will be the nominee". So from that viewpoint to keep going in the primary til the Golden State makes a fair bit of sense. But diminishing returns appears to be kicking in...

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#122805: May 18th 2016 at 2:49:13 PM

Sanders is burning bridges faster than he can repair them.

He's dangerously walking a thin line.

New Survey coming this weekend!
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#122806: May 18th 2016 at 3:01:45 PM

@Septimus

If you note what I said I was complaining in particular about talking to his fanboys, several of whom I've run into, who can't figure out why all Hispanics aren't behind him since he's "so much better for them than Clinton". A couple of the ones I've talked to can't figure out for the life of them why more Hispanics aren't lining up behind him since "he's the one who fights for the little guy". Incidents like the aforementioned one would be the reason why.

I wasn't talking about actual polling. Just about dealing with the fanclub that idolizes him.

edited 18th May '16 3:02:04 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar

TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#122807: May 18th 2016 at 3:02:10 PM

Hillary should tell him to go fuck himself.

He's dangerously walking a thin line.

You're redundantly phrasing inane lines.

I'm feeling rather disappointed by the pettiness and the contempt that the Democrat side is showing here, especially when there's plenty to genuinely criticize without resorting to disingenuity, name-calling, vulgarity, or threats. This is unbecoming of you, who pride yourselves on honesty, integrity, civility, and sportsmanship. Does it all go away as soon as things get the least bit difficult?

[up]After having met two such people (a Pakistani- and a Chinese-descendent respectively). I agree that Sanders has some seriously ignorant supporters overhyping him. Then again, what candidate doesn't?

edited 18th May '16 3:03:53 PM by TheHandle

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#122808: May 18th 2016 at 3:03:33 PM

[up]I'm honestly not sure who you're talking to here. Particularly given that like 90% of the thread is Democratic (or would be if we lived in the USA).

Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#122810: May 18th 2016 at 3:07:04 PM

Sanders's ignorant supporters though now are getting a lot of attention, thanks to that Nevada flap.

@Ambar: I did see your line about Sanders supporters and I did check if it - the statement - was actually true.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#122811: May 18th 2016 at 3:10:11 PM

I'm talking to that approximate 90% of the thread, or at least the parts of it that indulge in fanboy/hatedom. I'll admit that I fell for some of that too. I overestimated Sanders and thought worse of Hillary than she deserved.

Although as a middle-easterner I am still thoroughly allergic to war hawk presidents. Even "mildly assertive" presidents such as Obama have me worried (although I applaud his Iran and Cuba deals). Isolationism is not my preferred option: highly active treaty-brokering diplomacy would be. But I prefer an isolationist over a hawk any day.

I dislike and distrust neo-liberalism as a discredited ideology.

So I'll never like Hillary, I think. But I will apologize for calling her dishonest when all seems to show that she's actually among the more truthful candidates.

[up]I think Sanders was right to condemn both phenomena. Caucii are terrible, but they shouldn't be "fixed" at the last minute just because they happen to advantage Sanders. That's just petty, especially since his chances of winning are slim.

edited 18th May '16 3:12:29 PM by TheHandle

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#122812: May 18th 2016 at 3:11:56 PM

[up]That just seems like how people in general speak. So far, most people here haven't really said anything without something substantial actually backing up the opinion.

The couple of people who did got banned.

edited 18th May '16 3:12:33 PM by LSBK

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#122813: May 18th 2016 at 3:12:14 PM

So I'll never like Hillary, I think. But I will apologize for calling her dishonest when all seems to show that she's actually among the more truthful candidates.

Well, neither Hillary nor Sanders can compete with Trump in the "dishonesty" department. Now if you want to say that Hillary is more honest than Sanders you'd have to make a breakdown of their statement and the like. My impression from fact checkers is that they are roughly comparable in accuracy and honesty.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#122814: May 18th 2016 at 3:13:02 PM

[up]Precisely.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
MABfan11 from Remnant Since: May, 2014 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#122815: May 18th 2016 at 3:19:31 PM

protagonist506

This entire thread is basically Democrats and me.

there is also Major Tom, tho i haven't seen him around in a while, and his posts seems to be from before i joined TV Tropes

Bumbleby is best ship. busy spending time on r/RWBY and r/anime. Unapologetic Socialist
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#122816: May 18th 2016 at 3:24:10 PM

I think that guy got banned from the forum, though he still posts pretty actively in other forums here so I don't know. He was kind of flame baity in his commentary.

Anyway, I can see why going on Fox is pointless, given their general "liberals R BAD" hype machine, but it might also be an effective chance for both candidates to get out the party's platform to an audience that doesn't usually hear it in a context they're willing to give the benefit of the doubt. It probably won't affect the actual votes for those in the Democratic party.

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#122817: May 18th 2016 at 3:26:50 PM

Major Tom was indeed banned from the OTC forum in early 2012.

As for that Fox debate, lessee if Hillary will join. The Nevada fracas were really more about Sanders vs. the Nevada DP and Boss Debbie (or shall I say Boss Water Brain) than a Sanders vs. Clinton fight.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#122818: May 18th 2016 at 3:27:16 PM

EDIT: [up]I actually saw one of Clinton's surrogates on MSNBC saying they thought Sanders had done enough to rebuke the violence, so her campaign doesn't seem especially mad at him about it (unless they've been saying they are elsewhere).

@Septimus

What I mean is that I wasn't claiming he is doing badly with the Hispanic community. Just that a couple of his crazier fans couldn't seem to process why anyone in that particular community would have a problem with him, when there's some pretty solid reasons why they might. I was not trying to make a statement about his actual support within said community.

@The Handle

I think what makes some of the Sanders supporters come off as badly as they do is that they've bought into this narrative of him as this perfect representation of what being a progressive is all about. He's not—and to be fair, nobody ever could be. But because that's the image he's sold, and the image that some of his more hardcore fans have bought into, it makes challenging that narrative even more difficult than it is for other politicians.

I would never deny that Clinton has some unpleasant people backing her. But even the worst ones I've met have been easier to reason with than some of the crazier Sanders' supporters I've met. Now maybe that's just anecdotal. Maybe it's the result of small sample size. I do not know. But that's the reality I'm dealing with.

edited 18th May '16 3:32:24 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar

Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#122819: May 18th 2016 at 3:28:20 PM

Ah. Major Tom was probably banned long before I joined.

Leviticus 19:34
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#122820: May 18th 2016 at 3:42:15 PM

He's really made the grade.

@Obama's Fresh Face: Harsher in Hindsight, given how grizzled he's become.

edited 18th May '16 3:42:33 PM by TheHandle

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#122821: May 18th 2016 at 3:45:05 PM

He's not the first president to suffer from that. There was this article I saw once that compared him, Bush, and Clinton at the beginning of their presidencies to the end. Easy on the office holder the presidency is not.

wehrmacht belongs to the hurricane from the garden of everything Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
belongs to the hurricane
#122822: May 18th 2016 at 3:45:50 PM

[nja]Apparently being the president will do that to you.

Not surprising but those joke pictures about what trump would look like at the end of his theoretical presidency (in comparison to other presidents) really put into perspective how much older george w and obama look since they started.

edited 18th May '16 3:46:54 PM by wehrmacht

Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#122823: May 18th 2016 at 3:46:07 PM

For what it's worth, IIRC about 10% of presidents die while in office. A 10% chance of death isn't even the most stressful part of the job.

Leviticus 19:34
desdendelle Hooded Crow from Land of Milk and Honey (Sergeant) Relationship Status: Hiding
Hooded Crow
#122824: May 18th 2016 at 3:51:18 PM

protagonist506
This entire thread is basically Democrats and me.
Yay for being the ambiguous watcher!

On empty crossroads, seek the eclipse -- for when Sol and Lua align, the lost shall find their way home.
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#122825: May 18th 2016 at 3:53:51 PM

18%, if I remember how to use a calculator correctly.


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