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Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#122751: May 18th 2016 at 8:59:48 AM

@ Fighteer:

There are few realistic views other than Keynes/Hicks

By unrealistic, you mean Marx, Engels, Mao, Goldman and many, many others?

Keep Rolling On
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#122752: May 18th 2016 at 9:05:10 AM

That phrasing doesn't actually make it sound like he's blaming the "urban" people involved. Although, the urban part alone does catch the ear.

Mio Since: Jan, 2001
#122753: May 18th 2016 at 9:08:34 AM

[up][up]Pretty much.

Marx was pretty good at analyzing the detrimental effects of the still relatively new phenomenon of industrial capitalism, but his solutions were, lacking to say the least.

That he also inspired a bunch of nutty revolutionaries and other ideological nonsense is just the icing on the cake really.

edited 18th May '16 9:09:37 AM by Mio

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#122754: May 18th 2016 at 9:13:07 AM

@K Kho: It's been acknowledged in this thread several times that people wanting to do violence will turn to other weapons. It's also been pointed out that you can hurt a lot less people with a knife in the same way you can with a gun, especially if we're talking about the whole school shooting thing. (This was SEVERAL pages back)

[up]The first of something is rarely ever very refined.

edited 18th May '16 9:13:35 AM by AceofSpades

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#122755: May 18th 2016 at 9:18:36 AM

and opposed gun control on the basis of that

You're still not telling me what gun control he's opposed. Also the factors that lead to all forms of violence are kinda the factors that lead to gun violence as well, that's kinda how crime and violence works.

Because banning certain kinds of automatic weapon was really going to impact hunters.

That's not what the Assault Weapons Ban was about, automatic weapons were effectively banned from civilian use in 1986, when Sanders was 22 (Edit: my numbers are bad, he was 45, still the point stand, he wasn't even a congressmen at the time). The Assault Weapons Ban focused primarily on banning guns for the way they looked or for having features that had no impact on how much damage they could do.

edited 18th May '16 10:16:48 AM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#122756: May 18th 2016 at 9:42:14 AM

"U.S. presidential campaigns targeted by hackers: U.S. spy chief's office" - http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN0Y929G

[up] Pretty sure Sanders is older than 52.

edited 18th May '16 9:56:00 AM by sgamer82

FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#122757: May 18th 2016 at 9:46:52 AM

[up][up]Might wanna check your math....

Ogodei Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers from The front lines Since: Jan, 2011
Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers
#122758: May 18th 2016 at 9:47:16 AM

It is odd for a figure who marched with Dr. King and has a civil-rights era arrest record to be so out of step with the struggle of the black community today (not so odd given that Mitch Mcconnell marched too, but odd for someone who stayed left-leaning since then).

Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#122759: May 18th 2016 at 9:55:08 AM

Not that odd when you consider King's primary focus was opposing Jim Crow legislation in the South. De facto descrimination in urban communities above the Mason-Dixon line was something he had less experience with. Even he was flabbergasted when repressed anger finally boiled over and inner city folks rioted and destroyed their own communities. He was pivoting to a more broad focus on poverty nation-wide but his assassination screwed those plans over.

ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#122760: May 18th 2016 at 10:15:43 AM

@Armbar

I really don't get the "closet racist" remark for Sanders from you. Seriously, the guy was literally on the front lines of the Civil Rights movement, when you could get beaten just for doing so. Saying he might be a little outdated on what major complaints minorities have is a fairer assessment, but racist?

[down]

Right you are - it was in Armbar's block o' text, which still doesn't make sense. Ditto for sexist, since Sanders pushes hard on the minimum/equal wage front. And out of curiosity, where the fuck did the "repressed if you haven't had sex by 13" line come from?

edited 18th May '16 10:31:41 AM by ironballs16

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#122761: May 18th 2016 at 10:19:51 AM

[up]X3, X4 Brain fart fixed.

[up][up] Not really, in the end Sanders has since then interacted largely white people, he's become colour blind and in many ways is proof that being colour blind isn't a good thing, because all he sees is eccentric inequality.

[up] Fighteer just said that he doesn't think/isn't convinced that Sanders is one...

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Ekuran Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#122762: May 18th 2016 at 10:24:42 AM

He's got subconscious racism that doesn't really let him see the big picture on some of the things he says or will do. It's why every election will always be a choice between a lesser evil and greater evil, because even if you do seemingly make all the right choices you're not going to be exempt from the xenophobic fear and hatred of the other lodged deep in your brain.

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#122763: May 18th 2016 at 10:38:47 AM

@ironballs: there was an article posted outlining why a guy didn't support Sanders and it included that bit, with a lot of links. Here's the article again, but it's kind of long.

https://medium.com/@robinalperstein/on-becoming-anti-bernie-ee87943ae699#.dh758yiyq

It's a pretty in depth article.

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#122764: May 18th 2016 at 10:55:54 AM

The article needs to talk less amateur mind reading and more emphasis on effective gun policies before I can take it seriously.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
TotemicHero No longer a forum herald from the next level Since: Dec, 2009
No longer a forum herald
#122765: May 18th 2016 at 11:02:44 AM

Romney nixes independent campaign completely.

Expergiscēre cras, medior quam hodie. (Awaken tomorrow, better than today.)
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#122766: May 18th 2016 at 11:19:00 AM

So "unconditional surrender" rather than "civil war" seems like to me.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#122767: May 18th 2016 at 11:21:48 AM

I just don't see how that makes him any less "progressive" then any other (whom are also unlikely to base their policy on Keynesian economics).

I'm not disputing his progressive credibility, whatever that means, only saying that I am more inclined to trust someone who has done their homework and isn't trying to sell plans whose numbers don't add up. That's supposed to be a Republican thing.

By unrealistic, you mean Marx, Engels, Mao, Goldman and many, many others?
Marx and Engels believed in revolutionary Socialism, something I cannot ever support because it patently doesn't work. Their ideas did provide a great deal of inspiration for Keynes, though.

Mao got us China, and while it's certainly had a lot of success growing out of a subsistence economy to an industrial export economy, it's got some major hurdles to jump over, and it could hardly be said to be practicing strict Maoism these days. There's also the whole genocide thing...

Which Goldman are you referring to?

edited 18th May '16 11:22:47 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#122768: May 18th 2016 at 11:23:21 AM

Septimus, was that at me? Because I wasn't even posting it in response to the gun issue, which I've honestly kind of tuned out on lately. It was just in response to Ironballs' question of where the weird sex issue came from. Though the article does cover a broad swathe of issues as things the author has problems with regarding Sanders's campaign.

Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#122769: May 18th 2016 at 11:24:31 AM

[up][up]

Which Goldman are you referring to?

Emma.

edited 18th May '16 11:24:42 AM by Greenmantle

Keep Rolling On
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#122770: May 18th 2016 at 11:24:36 AM

Yep, that article. Not you yourself.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#122771: May 18th 2016 at 11:25:47 AM

[up][up] You don't know me very well if you think I'd consider anarchism to be a viable form of political-economic ideology. Certainly, however, it has contributed some useful insights to our modern discourse.

edited 18th May '16 11:26:37 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#122772: May 18th 2016 at 11:28:49 AM

Ugh, reading blogs like that make my brain hurt, especially when they blow the smallest things way the hell up. In the case of the source-of-source for that post, Sanders saying that "what the mother taught" her daughter about sex equals dismissing the existence of Patriarchy (because it didn't mention the father) and buying into a different version of it via the boyfriend. My interpretation of the sentence boils down to "Making her own informed decision rather than listen to the bogeyman when it comes to sex".

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#122773: May 18th 2016 at 11:30:48 AM

[up][up]

You don't know me very well if you think I'd consider anarchism to be a viable form of political-economic ideology.

I know you well enough, Fighteer, to know that you're a lot more towards the Statist end of the spectrumnote  smile.

edited 18th May '16 11:31:58 AM by Greenmantle

Keep Rolling On
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#122774: May 18th 2016 at 11:42:12 AM

Anarchy is the larval form of feudalism.

It has certainly been interesting seeing how Sanders's campaign has devolved since the primaries began. He started out acting like the Second Coming of Obama but now he's just coming off as a sore loser.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#122775: May 18th 2016 at 11:48:02 AM

I thought Clinton was supposedly the second coming of Obama, and that Sanders was supposedly the counterpart to Trump with his "outsider" status. I don't think Obama ran on the whole outsider thing.


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