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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#122701: May 17th 2016 at 8:38:00 PM

[up][up]So basically, whoever we're get is going to be somewhat flawed at best and absolutely horrible at worst? What else is new?

edited 17th May '16 8:38:11 PM by kkhohoho

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#122702: May 17th 2016 at 8:38:04 PM

While Sanders is making some mistakes here I think he's got quite a long downwards fall to make before he's anywhere near as bad as Trump.

In any case, let's remember that he's been an official Independent for most of his career. Just because he's spent much of that time caucusing with Democrats doesn't mean he's all that invested in the wellness of Democrats as a party.

@Ilovedogs: What horrible things? The deportations??? Because right now that's the worst thing I can think about on a record that's generally considered pretty dang good by leftist standards: Accomplishing healthcare, supporting same sex marriage, getting the economy out of recession.

edited 17th May '16 8:39:33 PM by AceofSpades

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#122703: May 17th 2016 at 8:41:33 PM

The many horrible things Obama has done? Why do I suspect I'm going to hate the answer to this?

storyyeller More like giant cherries from Appleloosa Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: RelationshipOutOfBoundsException: 1
More like giant cherries
#122704: May 17th 2016 at 8:44:49 PM

I don't support everything Obama has done, but on the whole, his presidency has been a huge success. Even Obamacare alone is a major achievement, even ignoring that it was accomplished in the face of unprecedented obstructionism.

The next time you get sad about drones or TPP or whatever, just remember that tens of millions of people now have access to healtchare.

Blind Final Fantasy 6 Let's Play
GameGuruGG Vampire Hunter from Castlevania (Before Recorded History)
Vampire Hunter
#122705: May 17th 2016 at 8:46:09 PM

Apparently, Bernie Sanders began his defiant statement about the chaos at the Nevada Democratic Party convention with a condemnation of any and all forms of violence, including the personal harassment of individuals.

I will admit that I wanted to at least check other acceptable sources before getting angry at Sanders, and wished to at least make a clarification. That being said, I don't think I'm happy with the Sanders Camp at the moment.

edited 17th May '16 8:47:24 PM by GameGuruGG

Wizard Needs Food Badly
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#122706: May 17th 2016 at 8:47:48 PM

[up][up]I would like to note that the drones thing drives me nuts. Not necessarily because people are wrong to complain about collateral damage—they're not—but because too many of the people I've met seem to think that this is somehow new.

It's not. And like it or not, drone strikes are a hell of a lot less likely to incur collateral damage than similar strikes by aeroplanes, or god forbid, strategic bombing, the latter of which produces tens of thousands of excess casualties. Targeted assassinations by people on the ground tend to leave an excess bodycount as well, given that almost inevitably people other than the guy you are after get in the way.

So if you want to oppose America targeting people for termination, go ahead. If you want to oppose anything and everything that might produce collateral damage, go ahead. For the love of all that's holy, stop acting like drones are some new and especially horrible way of making war. They're not.

edited 17th May '16 8:48:25 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar

ILoveDogs Since: May, 2010
#122707: May 17th 2016 at 8:49:00 PM

[up][up][up] But is that good enough? Are we still not doing enough to save the environment? Are the deportations really excusable? I like Obama a lot, and I applaud all that he's done, but I just feel sick to my stomach about...well, everything.

edited 17th May '16 8:49:13 PM by ILoveDogs

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#122708: May 17th 2016 at 8:49:18 PM

You guys are awere the Sanders campaign did condem violence (was there any, I'd only heard about harassment and death threats) and harassment right? Them doing so is right there in the article, the statement Sanders made personally focused on other stuff by considering Reid strait up said that Sanders had said to him that he condemns it and that Sanders didn't write the statement that he read out I'm not sure where this "Sanders endorses violence" thing is coming from.

Now what does seem to be clear is that Sanders has his priorities rather out of whack at the moment, he may consider condemning harassment and addressing intuitional problems both things to be done but he's giving moe focus to the later, which I can understand people being pissed about.

[up]X3 Well look at that, he literally condemed the violence and the press just cut that part of his statement. so much for him not condemning things. This is why people distrust the press, they aid that Sanders didn't condem the actions despite the fact that that's literally the first thing he said.

edited 17th May '16 8:51:58 PM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#122709: May 17th 2016 at 8:53:01 PM

[up]Because when you say "violence is bad" but then follow it up with a far lengthier critique of the people to whom the violence was done, it comes off like you are excusing the violence.

smokeycut Since: Mar, 2013
#122710: May 17th 2016 at 8:55:11 PM

Its not just the violence for me though. Its how he focuses almost entirely on the idea that "money is causing racism and homophobia and every other problem" when that isn't necessarily true. Its how he keeps acting as though Hillary's victories are illegitimate. Its how he keeps pushing the idea that we need a revolution, whichh makes me very uncomfortable.

Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#122711: May 17th 2016 at 8:56:53 PM

I agree that it comes off ugly, though given that I've given Hillary a pass for not taking DWS to the bleachers and publically telling her to cut the shit, I can give Sanders a pass for not spending any effort on reining in the Bernie Bros.

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#122712: May 17th 2016 at 8:59:42 PM

[up]I loathe Schultz as much as the next person, but until she starts throwing chairs that's still rather different from the violence perpetrated by some of the crazier Bernie fans.

Demonic_Braeburn Yankee Doodle Dandy from Defective California Since: Jan, 2016
Yankee Doodle Dandy
#122713: May 17th 2016 at 9:01:26 PM

Sanders and Trump just won Oregon.

I believe Puerto Rico is the next primary.

edited 17th May '16 9:04:55 PM by Demonic_Braeburn

Any group who acts like morons ironically will eventually find itself swamped by morons who think themselves to be in good company.
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#122714: May 17th 2016 at 9:03:42 PM

[up]X5 Only if you want it to, he said that violence was bad and that people shouldn't do it. But honestly the people there seem to have had a legit reason to be pissed. It's like when people insist you have to condem violence after riots due to racial issues with policing. Yes the violence has to be condemed and it is, but is it relay that bad for someone to explain that maybe the people who got screwed (be they folks trying to vote or black propel trying to not get shot randomly) kinda have a legit reason to be passed.

[up]X4 The laser focus on economic issues I get, the "Hillary wins aren't legitimate" is his crazier supports not him, as for his use of the word revolution, meh, that's a personal thing and I can see why it might make a person nervous.

[up]X2 High level election rigging has probably done a lot more damage then a few thrown chairs.

edited 17th May '16 9:06:21 PM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#122715: May 17th 2016 at 9:06:03 PM

[up]That's nice. Only one of them is actually illegal. The DNC can run its process how it wants; it's not a public entity. Hitting people, conversely, is something that most folks agree you should go to prison for.

Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#122716: May 17th 2016 at 9:08:04 PM

[up]You know, there really isn't a consensus in America that hitting "the wrong people" (defined by whoever is talking) should be a crime.

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#122717: May 17th 2016 at 9:08:25 PM

Sure it's not justified, but just like when black areas riot due to racial issues with police it's worth understanding what's pushed people to this point. One can try to understand without excusing.

Also a thrown chair if it's not throw st someone is just property damage. I've still not got a clear picture of what actually happened. Thought he death threats and harassment are plenty to be going on with.

edited 17th May '16 9:09:26 PM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
storyyeller More like giant cherries from Appleloosa Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: RelationshipOutOfBoundsException: 1
More like giant cherries
#122718: May 17th 2016 at 9:11:13 PM

I don't think that ramming through the votes was a good idea, but it's hard to tell if it actually affected anything rules wise.

Blind Final Fantasy 6 Let's Play
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#122719: May 17th 2016 at 9:12:50 PM

@Ilovedogs: He's done what he can, against great opposition. You can feel sick all you want, but that doesn't change what can be done as a practical matter. Even the president is just one person. They can do a whole freaking hell of a lot, but they can't get it done all on their own. So blaming the whole "not getting enough done" on environmental factors solely on Obama is shortsighted. And for the deportations: he's also in support of the DREA Mers act, and is trying to make immigration easier and help those who've been here since they were little children and had no choice because their parents brought them to gain citizenship. I've heard nothing that suggests Clinton wants to reverse position on these issues.

Don't let that queesy feeling cause you to place the blame where it doesn't belong, is what I'm saying.

TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#122720: May 17th 2016 at 9:34:35 PM

[

High level election rigging has probably done a lot more damage then a few thrown chairs.

What in the blazes of hell are you blabbing about? Rigging an election in the USA is not only next to impossible, but completely pointless if not counterproductive.

I just can't take these claims of "fraud" seriously.

edited 17th May '16 9:35:10 PM by TacticalFox88

New Survey coming this weekend!
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#122721: May 17th 2016 at 9:42:37 PM

[up] Actual US elections sure, but DWS has been behind a ton of shady shit for the entire primary, all of it entirely unneeded, as Clinton is clearly the preferred candidate by the majority anyway.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#122722: May 17th 2016 at 10:35:52 PM

Besides, election rigging through redistricting is a thing. Not a DNC thing but certainly in Congress.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
LogoP Party Crasher from the Land of Deep Blue Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: You can be my wingman any time
Party Crasher
#122723: May 17th 2016 at 10:59:34 PM

[up][up][up] Also note that they tend to usually pop up when Bernie loses.

It is sometimes an appropriate response to reality to go insane.
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#122724: May 17th 2016 at 11:04:52 PM

Um, a few people have been claiming that some of Sanders' wins occur because of independents voting in the Democratic primaries. Including independents that may have nefarious motives, such as Republican voters who may be aiming at disrupting the Dem nomination process.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
GameGuruGG Vampire Hunter from Castlevania (Before Recorded History)
Vampire Hunter
#122725: May 17th 2016 at 11:12:06 PM

[up] If you are going to claim this then can't you also claim that Donald Trump was also voted by Democratic voters wanting to disrupt the Republican nomination process? After all, Trump's done the best with Independents among Republican candidates from what I've heard.

Wizard Needs Food Badly

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