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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
Even if they are, they tend to be at odds with each other.
Take unemployment, for example - there's no denying that women being able to work outside the home (rather than expected to be "homemakers") has decreased the number of available jobs, but taking that right away from them would be extremely unfair. Same for the concept that a household should be able to function on one person's income. Japan is a fairly good example for both, as women tend to be expected to retire if/when they marry, while their husband remains in the workforce and be, essentially, Married to the Job to the point that their personal relationships suffer and they might literally die from working themselves too hard.
"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"My reference on the Jefferson vs. Hamilton thing: [1]
What, like "hard work" and "decency"? Every generation complains about every next generation losing those values. "Faith" is a value we can do without. What else? Racism? Again, can do without.
edited 11th May '16 1:18:58 PM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"I find hope preferable to faith. Faith is "knowing", hope is believing.
Decency seems subjective, but I guess it's partly not getting too publicly naked? And/or just treating people with respect.
And hard work too, but people want more money just to pay for things that they wouldn't want to do themselves, don't they?
I would happily pay someone to do menial things for me if I earned enough to justify it. Does that make me lazy? If so, every one-percenter is going to Hell.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"Racism, misogyny, religious fundamentalism as an influence of state power, corporatism, and military adventurism are all things rooted in past and present that we could do without going into the future. Honestly, none of this stuff would be insurmountable if the millennial Left wasn't so enamored with revolutionary change, and the Baby Boomer Right wasn't so damned reactionary.
"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."We're all lazy, horny, selfish animals. But wanting is just an Earthling quality.
Though money feels like a governmental assessment of your worth. How much you have determines how much you deserve.
If money was an actual marker of deservation it'd be, like, tied to your life force.
edited 11th May '16 1:31:14 PM by Keybreak
You gotta believe me when I scare you away, all that I wish for is that you would stay"I miss them old-fashioned American values. Why, you just can't tell a darkie to sit at the back of the bus anymore without someone calling you a racist. In my day, we didn't let 'em vote, kept 'em out of our schools, and nobody minded. Nobody who mattered, anyway."
edited 11th May '16 1:35:32 PM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"![]()
On an amusing if irrelevant sidenote: a dystopia I'm writing actually does involve a government that assigns wealth to people based on how much they're worth (or rather, how loyal they are to the state). They justify this on the basis that money (as we know it in our society) and capitalism are evil in their eyes.
edited 11th May '16 1:41:06 PM by Protagonist506
Leviticus 19:34In Time showed how lifespawn was literally converted into currency, but that's not quite the same thing.
If you're granting money to buy goods according to somebody else's virtues...
That's probably a really subjective thing. But a minimum wage just seems to be how much the government decides your labor is worth hourly.
And for all of the dredge work, I think it's pretty valuable.
You gotta believe me when I scare you away, all that I wish for is that you would stay@Fry: Their ideology is some form of pseudo-Communism, though it's never referred to as such by name. The inspiration for this economic system (from a doylist perspective) was China's sesame cred system.
@Minumum Wage: I'm unsure if increasing it on the federal level is a great idea. Two marks I have against Minimum Wage: It's a price control, and price control leads to shortages. Also, since it forces businesses to pay higher wages, they have to raise prices to compensate, which in turn leads to basically everything going up in price-defeating the point of having it in the first place. Having said that, I'm not against the concept itself, for various reasons (for example, people having money to buy things drives up the economy).
Leviticus 19:34Any business that's not the size of some mom and pop store that says they have to increase their prices to afford $15 an hour is lying through their teeth.
And frankly any business that would go under because they can't pay their workers a living wage should.
Wages are a cost of business, if you can't afford it then you shouldn't be in it. You wouldn't steal goods or electricity to keep costs down, why is stealing labor acceptable?
Oh really when?"Shame on you. It’s not true," Grayson said, according to sources in the room.
"It is true and I want you to lose," Reid fired back
edited 11th May '16 2:36:22 PM by Demonic_Braeburn
Any group who acts like morons ironically will eventually find itself swamped by morons who think themselves to be in good company.The US is currently experiencing a labour surplus, so shorting it a bit would be good. The same way you want deflation measures when you have hyperinflation and you want inflation when you've got deflation.
Nope, ignoring the "they can just reduce profits" argument for a sec here's another one, the higher wage nationally leads to an increase in sales (as people have more income) which means they sell more stuff and thus generate additional profits that cover the increase in wage costs.
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ CyranIt might not go down under, but it might still effect their bottom line. Alternatively, they might just fire workers.
It's not stealing since if you're working for them semi-voluntarily you're not being stolen from. Stealing labor would be more like "Work for me or I'll fine you, or hurt you". If I offered to pay you 50 cents to wash my car I'm a cheap skate, but so long as nobody's literally forcing you to work for me I'm technically not a slavedriver. Though, again, not saying it's wrong to have a minimum wage per say, simply that low wages aren't the same as slavery.
In my defense, I did use that as a reason why I think minimum wage is good in moderation.
edited 11th May '16 2:44:16 PM by Protagonist506
Leviticus 19:34You've clearly never worked in a Right To Work or At Will Employment state have you?
Do you have any idea how many hours of unpaid overtime I've worked or how many things outside my job description I've done to avoid getting fired? Or how much of my own money I've had to put in the registers to keep my job?
And I'm far from the only person who's gone through that.
Oh really when?

I've been reading a lot of material about the fundamental divide in American politics, which seems to stem from the clash between Thomas Jefferson and Alexander Hamilton.
Jefferson was very much an anti-government type who exalted the earthy wisdom of the small farmer and wanted government as out of the way as possible, while Hamilton was a believer in a strong federal government that could support an industrial economy that America would build upon to become a world power.
What's ironic is that, while the Jeffersonian mentality has raged throughout our politics and everyone on the right loves to wax poetic about "real America" and "Joe the Plumber", it's been on the back of Hamilton's ideas that we have grown into a superpower. And let's not forget that Jefferson had his share of slaves.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"