Nov 2023 Mod notice:
There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.
If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations
and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines
before posting here.
Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.
If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules
when posting here.
In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.
Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
The new normal!
I do believe that there was a liberal explosion online as so many people made their thoughts known. So many oppressed groups voicing their complaints, while the Republican Party mainly stayed so WASPy.
Most non-white Republicans I've seen are more religious Hispanics, buuuuut...not too many.
You gotta believe me when I scare you away, all that I wish for is that you would stayIncidentally, Jack O Lantern several pages back: When I was talking about a Democratic Donald Trump, I was not thinking of Sanders at all. Way too little crossparty appeal and too little media attention.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard FeynmanI will admit though that my argument does boil down to "if only more Conservatives adopted my specific brand of Conservatism!", but nonetheless I think that statement is actually true.
Leviticus 19:34"Keep the things I like! Dump everything else."
Conservatism is conservative when you think things are going well how you know them. Me, I like change. Good change. Lots of good change. More money for the poor. Minority groups getting more rights.
You gotta believe me when I scare you away, all that I wish for is that you would stayI mean, semantically speaking, my ideology is arguably progressive. It just defines progress differently than the left does to the point of resembling conservatism in practice. But I'm less concerned with the past than with the future.
Leviticus 19:34On the subject of Social Justice news, Rep. Martin Daniel of Tennessee complained about a reading assignment his 4th-grade daughter was given
for indoctrinating her class when it comes to the topic of "social justice". He was so up-in-arms over this bit of Political Correctness Gone Mad that he even wrote a Strongly Worded Letter to the Knox County Board of Education while cc'ing the Governor and the chairpeople of the Senate and House Education Committees to complain, which can be read in full here
.
Oddly enough, his complaint isn't so much that it's being taught, but that it's being taught in a non-History/Social Studies class - but when the person linked asked him about inequality in schools, Daniel's response was "That's a vague theory, in my view,"
"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"Man I hate this guy.
Oh really when?![]()
![]()
No, to simplify it, I define "progress" as towards a more meritocratic society with some other factors involved (religious influence, patriotism, individualism, ect). It's a bit more complicated than that, but that sums most of it up.
To use an extreme counter-example: I view communism as technically regressive. Hunter-Gatherer tribes, for example, live in proto-communistic societies.
edited 11th May '16 12:41:00 PM by Protagonist506
Leviticus 19:34Speaking as a white young man (OK, autistic white man) from a somewhat well off family, youth from better backgrounds needs that dose of "social justice" injected, whether in school or by pertinent Wikipedia articles as in my case (to a point).
It's very very easy to fall for the idea that everybody has it alike and that racism and all forms of discrimination aren't an issue if you don't have at least some understanding of the existence of these issues. And part of the reason why these issues persist is because of people who aren't aware that they are issues, or refuse to acknowledge their existence.
OK, this will be my general social justice post from here forward...
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman@Protagonist: Noted. You would want somebody to lead the country who was good at doing it, though "good" seems subject to scrutiny.
@Martin Daniel: Certain classes of persons ARE commonly discriminated against, and they HAVE been a victim, but America need not be oppressive.
It just doesn't know how to stop itself.
edited 11th May '16 12:45:36 PM by Keybreak
You gotta believe me when I scare you away, all that I wish for is that you would stayThe political establishment has a vested interest in painting the United States as a great place, even though, at times in past and present, for groups of people, it objectively wasn't.
I don't condone Rep. Martin's actions, because I think teaching children about how awful the world was, and still is, is integral to getting it to change, but this guy has simply drunk too much of the kool-aid of his party and American politics in general. Feel-good rhetoric brings in the votes. You don't get any points for saying that America, even at its best, was "tastefully mediocre."
edited 11th May '16 12:49:09 PM by CrimsonZephyr
"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."Like I say with a lot of things, it's not impossible, but it's not easy.
Making it in America tends to equate with getting a lot of money, or a lot of attention, and naturally that comes with taking it away from someone else, and you're expected to do it "fairly", with hard work and determination.
And not inherited privileges.
You gotta believe me when I scare you away, all that I wish for is that you would stayThe "American Dream" isn't anything unique to America. The American Dream is basically being physically and financially secure to live your life as you please without having to work 16 hours a day and/or live paycheck to paycheck for the rest of your life.
If we give up on that, we're screwed.
Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.

Personally, I'd hope for a new Conservatism movement, but I don't think that'll be the mechanic by which it arises. Wealth is not related to leftism-it's possible for the rich to support socialism or the poor to support capitalism. I wouldn't even argue it's against either's interests per say.
As for how Conservatism might make a comeback, personally I think all it'd need is a change in marketing and a clean-up of various idiots driving the American Right into the ground. What caused Conservatism to become unpopular primarily is self-reinforcing stereotypes and PR. Basically, calling the Republicans dumb hicks caused mostly everyone but dumb hicks to leave, who in turn became the ones managing the right's entire public image only further feeding into the problem.
Leviticus 19:34